Saintsreport.com Forums
home Steve Gleasons Website
Saints Report News Saints Super Forum Everything Else Board Political Discussion Board Fantasy Football Board Tech Board SaintsReport Affiliate Merchandise Gameday Board Behind the Levee New Orleans Hornets Board Twitter Outdoor Boards Video Games Board Smack Board Music Board College Sports Board SR Live Chat Room Contribute to our site costs Become a subscribing SR member

Do you want to remove the ads? Support the site by becoming a subscribing member.


Go Back   New Orleans Saints - Saints Report - Message Boards > GENERAL > Saints Super Forum (Main Board)


reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-17-2017, 08:59 AM   #1
Not a part of your system
 
NOFALCONS10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 40
Posts: 11,993
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
Thread Starter
The case for Malik McDowell at 11

I've been hyping Mcdowell a lot recently and have seen him mocked as early as 13th to the Cardinals and 17th to the Redskins. One site even recently had him as #7 to the chargers.

This post Is mostly about how he compares physically to another recent #11 overall pick in 2010, JJ Watt. Watt only had 7 sacks his final year at Wisconsin but had 21tkls for Loss. Watt played a lot of 4-3 DE that didn't suit his skill set there.

Similarly, McDowell was mostly asked to play NT but if you watch his film his best plays as a pass rusher mostly came from RE in the 4-3 and 3-4.

Also like Watt be is 290lbs+ and runs a 4.85. His arms are even 3/4" longer although Watt had the better vertical, bench, and 3-cone.


Recently I looked back on rookie Rushers that had the most impact and It is always mostly power guys like McDowell or Jonathan Allen because rookie speed guys like Noah Spence need time to develop their technique.

Take Joey Bosa and Deforest Buckner for example last year. Bosa is more of a power guy and so is Buckner. Bosa had 9.5 sacks as a rookie to lead all rookies even after missing a few games as a holdout. Buckner went on to post 70+tackles and 6 sacks as a DE.

McDowell is just as fast as Bosa but weighs more and is also faster than guys like Jonathan Allen, Barnett, and Deforest Buckner.


I think this guy should be the pick at DE at 11.
__________________
ANTI-CAPITALIST/ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN.
"Civil government is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor. For those who have some property against those who have none at all." Adam Smith
NOFALCONS10 is offline Reply With Quote


9 out of 25 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-17-2017, 09:08 AM   #2
Thread Killer Moderator

 
Saint_Ward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Age: 37
Posts: 31,084
Saint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club Member
Saint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club Member
Not that mocks mean a lot, but Both Walter football mocks have him going in the 2nd round. Mike Mayock has him as the 3rd best Interior Linemen. But the write up does say a move to 4-3 or 3-4 DE would likely benefit him. Also question his worth ethic and motor.

He's a high upside, questionable floor kind of guy based on what I'm reading. Not sure I'd want that with 11, or maybe even 32. Now, at 42.. it's worth a shot.

However, I get your point. His real value may end up well ahead of where he's projected based on his size and abilities. I think 3-4 teams will value him more though.
__________________
Reality is a reflection.
Saint_Ward is offline Reply With Quote


5 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-17-2017, 09:10 AM   #3
All-Pro
 
ANKOMA33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Vallejo, CA
Posts: 1,089
ANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of FamerANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of FamerANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of FamerANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of Famer
ANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of FamerANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of FamerANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of FamerANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of FamerANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of FamerANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of FamerANKOMA33 is a future SR.com Hall of Famer
IMO, MM is a reach at #11.
ANKOMA33 is offline Reply With Quote


5 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-17-2017, 09:12 AM   #4
Veteran
 
coreypre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Orleans to BR to da H
Posts: 114
coreypre will become famous soon enoughcoreypre will become famous soon enoughcoreypre will become famous soon enoughcoreypre will become famous soon enoughcoreypre will become famous soon enoughcoreypre will become famous soon enoughcoreypre will become famous soon enoughcoreypre will become famous soon enough
I'm going to agree on this one. From a football standpoint, he's the second best defensive line prospect period. If you watch his film, he has the ability to punish double teams as well as rush from the edge. In my mind, you put him at SDE and have Cam at the WDE.
__________________
:supporter: You cant do dat der u cant beat dem saints
coreypre is offline Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2017, 09:17 AM   #5
Not a part of your system
 
NOFALCONS10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 40
Posts: 11,993
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Ward View Post
Not that mocks mean a lot, but Both Walter football mocks have him going in the 2nd round. Mike Mayock has him as the 3rd best Interior Linemen. But the write up does say a move to 4-3 or 3-4 DE would likely benefit him. Also question his worth ethic and motor.

He's a high upside, questionable floor kind of guy based on what I'm reading. Not sure I'd want that with 11, or maybe even 32. Now, at 42.. it's worth a shot.

However, I get your point. His real value may end up well ahead of where he's projected based on his size and abilities. I think 3-4 teams will value him more though.
Compare the personality knocks and speed knocks that people are hanging on him to what people said about Bosa last year.

McDowell's 2015 also compared well to Bosa's.
__________________
ANTI-CAPITALIST/ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN.
"Civil government is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor. For those who have some property against those who have none at all." Adam Smith
NOFALCONS10 is offline Reply With Quote


0 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-17-2017, 09:21 AM   #6
Not a part of your system
 
NOFALCONS10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 40
Posts: 11,993
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANKOMA33 View Post
IMO, MM is a reach at #11.
I don't think so because his floor is so high.

At worst you are looking at possibly the best 3-4 DE in the draft and the most physically gifted DE prospect period.
__________________
ANTI-CAPITALIST/ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN.
"Civil government is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor. For those who have some property against those who have none at all." Adam Smith
NOFALCONS10 is offline Reply With Quote


1 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-17-2017, 09:22 AM   #7
Zardnokalicious!

 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bossier City
Age: 47
Posts: 6,423
Zardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true Saint
Zardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true SaintZardnok is a true Saint
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Ward View Post
Not that mocks mean a lot, but Both Walter football mocks have him going in the 2nd round. Mike Mayock has him as the 3rd best Interior Linemen. But the write up does say a move to 4-3 or 3-4 DE would likely benefit him. Also question his worth ethic and motor.

He's a high upside, questionable floor kind of guy based on what I'm reading. Not sure I'd want that with 11, or maybe even 32. Now, at 42.. it's worth a shot.

However, I get your point. His real value may end up well ahead of where he's projected based on his size and abilities. I think 3-4 teams will value him more though.
I absolutely expect someone to overdraft him to play 5-Tech DE in their base 3-4.

The thing that scares me is his hot-cold motor. It seems like he has some snaps where he just doesn't care.
Zardnok is offline Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2017, 09:24 AM   #8
Not a part of your system
 
NOFALCONS10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 40
Posts: 11,993
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreypre View Post
I'm going to agree on this one. From a football standpoint, he's the second best defensive line prospect period. If you watch his film, he has the ability to punish double teams as well as rush from the edge. In my mind, you put him at SDE and have Cam at the WDE.
I think that he is fine at RE.

He plays well at wide technique, stand up end, and has great bull rush and swim move.


As an added bonus he is really good on stunts too.
__________________
ANTI-CAPITALIST/ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN.
"Civil government is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor. For those who have some property against those who have none at all." Adam Smith
NOFALCONS10 is offline Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2017, 09:28 AM   #9
LoE
Hall-of-Famer
 
LoE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North Carolina
Age: 50
Posts: 3,529
LoE is a true SaintLoE is a true Saint
LoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true SaintLoE is a true Saint
I've read some very controversial reports on McDowell. We know he has all the physical tools - but is his head in it. I perceive him as high risk.

That being said, NOFALCON knows his football.
LoE is offline Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-17-2017, 09:31 AM   #10
Not a part of your system
 
NOFALCONS10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 40
Posts: 11,993
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardnok View Post
I absolutely expect someone to overdraft him to play 5-Tech DE in their base 3-4.

The thing that scares me is his hot-cold motor. It seems like he has some snaps where he just doesn't care.
It's hard to dominate when you are playing out of position.

Bosa only had 5 sacks and 35 tackles his last year at OSU.

I also don't think that "overdraft" is appropriate. He is faster and more explosive than guys like Deforest Buckner and Jonathan Allen. Buckner and Allen had the benefits of playing their proper position in college while McDowell did not.
__________________
ANTI-CAPITALIST/ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN.
"Civil government is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor. For those who have some property against those who have none at all." Adam Smith
NOFALCONS10 is offline Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2017, 09:38 AM   #11
Not a part of your system
 
NOFALCONS10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 40
Posts: 11,993
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoE View Post
I've read some very controversial reports on McDowell. We know he has all the physical tools - but is his head in it. I perceive him as high risk.

That being said, NOFALCON knows his football.
I will say it again.

Bosa was considered a head case by many last year too.


NFL Draft rumors: Teams worry Joey Bosa, Ezekiel Elliott use hard party drugs
__________________
ANTI-CAPITALIST/ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN.
"Civil government is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor. For those who have some property against those who have none at all." Adam Smith
NOFALCONS10 is offline Reply With Quote


0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-17-2017, 09:38 AM   #12
Thread Killer Moderator

 
Saint_Ward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Age: 37
Posts: 31,084
Saint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club Member
Saint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club MemberSaint_Ward Prestigious Platinum Club Member
Part of my reservation is that the draft guys always love 3-4 athletes.

I think those prototypes get a lot of extra hype, so I just downplay that stuff. Right or wrong.
__________________
Reality is a reflection.
Saint_Ward is offline Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-17-2017, 09:46 AM   #13
Not a part of your system
 
NOFALCONS10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 40
Posts: 11,993
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Ward View Post
Part of my reservation is that the draft guys always love 3-4 athletes.

I think those prototypes get a lot of extra hype, so I just downplay that stuff. Right or wrong.
Sometimes they deserve it as I think the case is here.

In the right position(s) at DE, McDowell could turn out to be better than Garrett, Barnett, and Allen because he has the most upside in the draft.

Go back and watch the snaps that McDowell took at end and compare them to JJ Watt at Wisconsin or Bosa, Buckner and Allen.

I think this guy belongs with any of them.
__________________
ANTI-CAPITALIST/ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN.
"Civil government is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor. For those who have some property against those who have none at all." Adam Smith
NOFALCONS10 is offline Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2017, 09:52 AM   #14
Not a part of your system
 
NOFALCONS10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 40
Posts: 11,993
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
Thread Starter
Likewise I think that the next best Power ends after McDowell are

Allen
Deatrich Wise jr
Hunter Dimick

Although I still am very high on traditional edge guys like Barnett, Hendrickson, and Kpassagnon as pure rush guys.
__________________
ANTI-CAPITALIST/ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN.
"Civil government is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor. For those who have some property against those who have none at all." Adam Smith
NOFALCONS10 is offline Reply With Quote



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:43 PM.



Saintsreport.com - New Orleans Saints News, Info & Community! All marks, logos and images related to the Saints are the property of the New Orleans Saints, the NFL and NFL Properties. We are in no way affiliated with the New Orleans Saints or the NFL. All commentary and original artwork, 1997-2016 SaintsReport.com, owned and operated by Andrus Whitewing, DBA Saints Report,LLC. All rights reserved. Copying of original columns prohibited without a return link and credit given. Teasing articles is ok.



Some of the Photos and pictures used throughout the site are copyright Michael C. Hebert and are used with the permission of Michael C. Hebert and the New Orleans Saints.




Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0