Expand Rosters NFL, add DE Saints

St. PJ · 08-22-2012, 09:42 PM

Did you know this year the NFL will place a certified person in the booth in every game-day stadium whose only job is to look for a player exhibiting signs of a possible head injury, whereupon that player will be removed from the game and evaluated?

I overheard Pat Kirwin discussing this. It appears that if a player shows any symptoms of concussion, he will not be allowed to return to the game. This is a direct result of the concussion lawsuits levied against the NFL this off-season. Kirwin said the NFL should expand both the 53 man roster and the 46 man game-day roster.

Most teams typically have 7 offensive linemen active on gameday -- the 5 starters, a swing tackle, and a swing inside guy. If by halftime, two linemen have their bell rung, you're coming out the lockerroom with zero depth. Many players have said that they have their bell rung about 5 times a game-- not a concussion, just a hard hit that dazes you for a second or three. I played DE, DT, and TE in high school. I can tell you that in that first step on the snap, when DE meets T, or DT meets G, that collision is violent enough at the high school level to make your head hurt if you're playing across from someone worth his salt. In the NFL, everyone is worth their salt, and the collisions are exponentially more violent-- and that's not even counting the full speed collisions away from the LOS.

The point is that if the NFL is going to err on the safe side and pull players from the game for the duration of the game, the rosters need expansion. It's hard enough fielding depth with the limitations already in place.

Speaking of depth, the Saints should really consider throwing their hat in the free agent tour for Andre Carter and or James Hall. Carter had 10 sacks after finally going back to a 4-3 team last year before suffering his first significant knee injury. He looks to be healthy, and like last year will probably sign a one year deal at veteran minimum. Hall played under Spags and already knows the defense. If, as Vitt alluded, Martez Wilson is temporarily going back to LB due to the depth issues there, adding a bonafide pass rusher at DE is a no-brainer with Will Smith potentially missing the first month. For a team that doesn't get 40 sacks a season, it should be a no brainer period.

jbourque · 08-22-2012, 09:54 PM

Goodell doesn't care about player safety, he just wants to look like he does. I would be surprised if a player was pulled out of a game. Additionally the NFL has a new sideline concussion assessment protocol. How could someone in a booth supercede this protocol?

I agree with you though, it's a game of small concussions.

CaliSaint4Life · 08-22-2012, 09:58 PM

Wilson is staying at DE, see below:
Steve Spagnuolo Discusses Tackling, Middle Linebackers

Quote:

With some of the injuries at linebacker was there a temptation to put Martez Wilson back there?
“It was an interesting thought, but to be honest with you, there was no thought to doing it. He’s good where he is right now and we will work through the injuries. I’ve never been involved (in a situation), where all three mike linebackers were lost at the same time. Usually one gets hurt and you have two left or two get hurt and you have one left. This is a little bit of a struggle and it’s no different than losing a quarterback. He’s the guy in the middle who makes all the calls, so we have to work through that. We have a game coming up and we have to get through it and then another one and all of a sudden it’s for real. Hopefully some guys get healthy and in the meantime we’ll find some guys to step in and do it.”

Also, as it pertains to Carter, the Rams signed Vernon Gholston over him, that's saying a LOT. Reports are Carter has no burst and isn't nearly recovered from his injury. I don't have any news on James Hall, but if we haven't brought him in thus far, then something must be up with him. I think we are fine at DE at the moment. Sooner or later, we are going to have to depend on our young talent. We need to find out what we have, that won't happen with a vet coming in taking all the snaps and reps....

NYCsaint · 08-22-2012, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbourque

Goodell doesn't care about player safety, he just wants to look like he does. I would be surprised if a player was pulled out of a game. Additionally the NFL has a new sideline concussion assessment protocol. How could someone in a booth supercede this protocol?

I agree with you though, it's a game of small concussions.

Booth is an eye in the sky to see if someone's stumbling around and can call someone field level to give the sideline exam.

Frankly - its the right thing as players have absolutely proven they won't care for themselves. In the long run I'd rather see a backup than another situation like kris dielman last year.

And the use of the phrase "bell rung" by current players only proves the need for something like this. You'd pull a guy with a wide variety of injuries, why not a head injury.

Brennan77 · 08-22-2012, 10:00 PM

Someone in a booth deciding a player needs to exit a game is ripe for corruption.

St. PJ · 08-22-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brennan77

Someone in a booth deciding a player needs to exit a game is ripe for corruption.

The guy in the booth only decides the player needs to be looked at by competent medical officials. If the dr says player has concussion symptoms, the player sits out the rest of the game - no more going back in like McCoy or Dielman.

In the Marines, they'd say you have "mothers of america" to thank for the new rule. It's funny, because it was probably Colt's Dad that prompted this (having over 3000 players sue the league surely nudged it along).

NYCsaint · 08-22-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brennan77

Someone in a booth deciding a player needs to exit a game is ripe for corruption.

Anything could be. The guy in the booth is just saying "hey check this guy" and ideally would only be doing that in cases like dielman stumbling around before his post game seizure or colt McCoy not remembering the rest of the game. If not concussed the player can return really quickly.

NYCsaint · 08-22-2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. PJ

The guy in the booth only decides the player needs to be looked at by competent medical officials. If the dr says player has concussion symptoms, the player sits out the rest of the game - no more going back in like McCoy or Dielman.

In the Marines, they'd say you have "mothers of america" to thank for the new rule. It's funny, because it was probably Colt's Dad that prompted this (having over 3000 players sue the league surely nudged it along).

If done right (and I get that's a big if) this rule will do far more good than bad. Players will almost never pull themselves as long as they can stand. It's been ingrained in them for so long that you don't show weakness. Head injuries still aren't a real thing to many ("they just go to sleep for a second" - james harrison), and a guy that's that woozy shouldn't be making the call for himself.

With the 3rd qb rule changing we've bumped up to 46 but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing like 50 dress and 55 on rosters

St. PJ · 08-22-2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliSaint4Life

Wilson is staying at DE, see below:
Steve Spagnuolo Discusses Tackling, Middle Linebackers
Also, as it pertains to Carter, the Rams signed Vernon Gholston over him, that's saying a LOT. Reports are Carter has no burst and isn't nearly recovered from his injury. I don't have any news on James Hall, but if we haven't brought him in thus far, then something must be up with him. I think we are fine at DE at the moment. Sooner or later, we are going to have to depend on our young talent. We need to find out what we have, that won't happen with a vet coming in taking all the snaps and reps....

Carter and/or Hall may not be an upgrade, but it is surprising the Saints haven't really brought ANY veteran DE in for a visit. I like how the Patriots do business. They'll bring in every nameworthy vet, including those newly released for a look-see. 9 times out of 10 they aren't planning on signing the player; rather, they're just updating their information on the player for "in case of" emergencies that might occur in a month.

My only point is that the Saints are thin when it comes to d-line pressure. Gallette and Jordan and Wilson may very well all have "break-out" seasons, but it doesn't hurt to have a veteran or two on a short list - specifically a short updated list where you've seen with your eyes what kind of shape the player is in now, when you have trade options, than a month into the season when a rash of injuries occur and every teams' 53 man roster is pretty much set.

jbourque · 08-22-2012, 10:31 PM

If anyone is curious this is the protocol:

Quote:

NFL team medical personnel will use this season a new standardized sideline concussion assessment protocol, the NFL Head, Neck and Spine Committee announced Friday. The announcement was made in Indianapolis at the NFL Combine by Dr. Margot Putukian, member of NFL Head, Neck and Spine Committee and chair of the Return-to-Play Subcommittee.

Developed by the subcommittee in response to a team medical staff survey conducted last season, the new protocol combines a symptom checklist, a limited neurological examination including a cognitive evaluation, and a balance assessment. It uses as a foundation many components of the sideline tool developed by the Concussion in Sport group that most recently met in Zurich in 2008. It was developed by the NFL Head, Neck, and Spine Committee, with input from the NFLPA and its medical advisors, NFL team physicians, athletic trainers and their professional societies, and other medical experts.

NFL announces new sideline concussion assessment protocol - NFL.com

SaintsJunkie · 08-23-2012, 12:05 AM

When Brooks threw the backwards pass , he would have been removed, surely had brain problems

Trey W. · 08-23-2012, 10:17 AM

I would think the reasoning behind not brining in every Vet possible is to get our young players the reps needed to be familiar with Spags new system. If we brought in 2-3 veteran players they would require practice snaps and game snaps. With our Defense learning a new system i'm guessing our Coaches would rather give our current players the learning experience than to some one who has a high chance of not making the team.

I do think with the growing size and speed of todays players and the trend of "Player Safety" it would be a good idea to raise the roster limit. When a team is down key players it just adds to the need for injured players to stay on the field.