Florio, Rosenthal, Freeman, Cole, etc... go the distance

[texasjefe]

I'm going to take a small leap of faith and assume that our unbeloved cohort of national internet media bigshots hit this forum frequently. Why wouldn't they? We've smelled and documented the real stink on this story since the moment it broke. Even just yesterday, Dibert was the only known human live-blogging Hargrove.

Let's remember a large basic element of the story. The NFL needed more than PFP - they needed BOUNTY - to justify the draconian punishments.

But as all of us knew instantly and what triggered immediate skepticism at the claims was the instinct and fact that THERE IS NO GAME VIDEO that corroborates the claims. We know our defense, and while they were huge playmakers in 2009, they've been underwhelming since.

So now here we are, and as the NFLPA and players' attorneys force NFL "evidence" out into the public, the NFL is throwing around its faux legal terms like "corroborate." And with no evidence in the game films - the only place it should be - what have they insultingly provided to the "convicted" as evidence?

1. Video tapes of sideline huddles.
2. Audio tape of motivational pre-game speeches, taken by a documentary filmmaker of a former player who has ALS.
3. An "alleged rat" who clearly was on the wrong side of Payton and Williams.
4. Crazy allegations that Loomis was eavesdropping on opponents during games like 8 years ago - when - again, there's nothing on the field that would show anything was applicable.
5. Terms like cartoff, whack, and kill the head that have zero context and would be laughed out of any court after real cross-examination.
6. The overtired video of Lord Favre getting smacked in the 2009 NFCCG. (never mind he had an ankle injury entering the game, or that the Minnesota O-Line stunk and was banged up, or that Favre was a blocker on a reverse that we got flagged on for touching him.
7. The fact that they are still trotting out "new" evidence after they've already sanctioned the coaches and players.
8. What else?

This is what Ginsberg means by "exculpatory" evidence. Evidence that seemingly bolsters or "corroborates" the claims. How nice of the NFL and their kangaroo court to throw this crap against a wall to see what sticks - without any reprisal of challenge from a real legal proceeding or courtroom (to date). [Correction per post that follows this. What I am referring to is "inculpatory" evidence]

Florio, Cole, etc... call out the NFL. They proved and it's never been denied there was PFP. But elevating it to bounties was a smear campaign to justify their loathing of Payton, Loomis, and their culture.

Why didn't the NFL just punish Payton and Loomis specifically for vicodin-gate, or, Ornstein? Why did they drop the ball on that? (I guess preoccupation with $8B in stadium debt or locking out players gets the attention.)

Florio and friends, if you are worth anything - if you want to find the real story - then start unearthing PFP all over the NFL. Unlock the NBC and Yahoo and CBS "informant money," and start interviewing as many recent former players as possible. Uncover PFP league-wide, and show that the punishment against Payton is pure vendetta.

If you cannot do that, then take your little blogs and platforms and

[mt15]

I may be off on this, but I thought exculpatory evidence would be evidence that proves the innocence of the players. What Ginsberg and Vlma are saying is that the NFL holds evidence that would prove that the bounties did NOT exist, but are suppressing it and choosing to only show evidence that they think supports their smear campaign. (it doesn't though).

[texasjefe]

Originally Posted by mt15

I may be off on this, but I thought exculpatory evidence would be evidence that proves the innocence of the players. What Ginsberg and Vlma are saying is that the NFL holds evidence that would prove that the bounties did NOT exist, but are suppressing it and choosing to only show evidence that they think supports their smear campaign. (it doesn't though).

Good catch. I noted it in the OP. And if true, this just becomes another injustice by Goodell and I cannot wait for this matter to hit a real courtroom.

[mt15]

So true. I really hope the nice judge lady denies the motion to dismiss.

[J.T.]

The exculpatory evidence, evidence that proves the innocence of those being accused, is available for anyone with two eyes......three years of game tape showing clean play by the Saints Defense and a total lack of players being injured as a result of illegal hits.

[Oye]

Originally Posted by texasjefe

I'm going to take a small leap of faith and assume that our unbeloved cohort of national internet media bigshots hit this forum frequently. Why wouldn't they? We've smelled and documented the real stink on this story since the moment it broke. Even just yesterday, Dibert was the only known human live-blogging Hargrove.

Let's remember a large basic element of the story. The NFL needed more than PFP - they needed BOUNTY - to justify the draconian punishments.

But as all of us knew instantly and what triggered immediate skepticism at the claims was the instinct and fact that THERE IS NO GAME VIDEO that corroborates the claims. We know our defense, and while they were huge playmakers in 2009, they've been underwhelming since.

So now here we are, and as the NFLPA and players' attorneys force NFL "evidence" out into the public, the NFL is throwing around its faux legal terms like "corroborate." And with no evidence in the game films - the only place it should be - what have they insultingly provided to the "convicted" as evidence?

1. Video tapes of sideline huddles.
2. Audio tape of motivational pre-game speeches, taken by a documentary filmmaker of a former player who has ALS.
3. An "alleged rat" who clearly was on the wrong side of Payton and Williams.
4. Crazy allegations that Loomis was eavesdropping on opponents during games like 8 years ago - when - again, there's nothing on the field that would show anything was applicable.
5. Terms like cartoff, whack, and kill the head that have zero context and would be laughed out of any court after real cross-examination.
6. The overtired video of Lord Favre getting smacked in the 2009 NFCCG. (never mind he had an ankle injury entering the game, or that the Minnesota O-Line stunk and was banged up, or that Favre was a blocker on a reverse that we got flagged on for touching him.
7. The fact that they are still trotting out "new" evidence after they've already sanctioned the coaches and players.
8. What else?

This is what Ginsberg means by "exculpatory" evidence. Evidence that seemingly bolsters or "corroborates" the claims. How nice of the NFL and their kangaroo court to throw this crap against a wall to see what sticks - without any reprisal of challenge from a real legal proceeding or courtroom (to date). [Correction per post that follows this. What I am referring to is "inculpatory" evidence]

Florio, Cole, etc... call out the NFL. They proved and it's never been denied there was PFP. But elevating it to bounties was a smear campaign to justify their loathing of Payton, Loomis, and their culture.

Why didn't the NFL just punish Payton and Loomis specifically for vicodin-gate, or, Ornstein? Why did they drop the ball on that? (I guess preoccupation with $8B in stadium debt or locking out players gets the attention.)

Florio and friends, if you are worth anything - if you want to find the real story - then start unearthing PFP all over the NFL. Unlock the NBC and Yahoo and CBS "informant money," and start interviewing as many recent former players as possible. Uncover PFP league-wide, and show that the punishment against Payton is pure vendetta.

If you cannot do that, then take your little blogs and platforms and

I just tweeted your post to Florio, Rosenthal, Freeman, Cole, etc

It took 114 tweets though, so I figure tomorrow we'll wake up to some amazing headlines or I'll wake up to cyber-restraining orders

[guidomerkinsrules]

Originally Posted by texasjefe

Why didn't the NFL just punish Payton and Loomis specifically for vicodin-gate, or, Ornstein? Why did they drop the ball on that? (I guess preoccupation with $8B in stadium debt or locking out players gets the attention.)

i think it's more b/c the new CBA wasn't written yet
had he/they done this before the cba the players would not have caved on this point

we've all been wondering why all this 2009 stuff is just coming up now - and we all went with the "they were told to stop.. they didn't..." and there was some final straw
i now think that's all bubkis like the rest
the new CBA was signed, they let the season play out, then the bountygate mess comes raining down -
hate payton & GW, small market newspaper with reporters who can't/won't raise a fuss, mad at drew b/c he was so vocal during the process

makes more sense than any timeline the league has provided (which it hasn't)

[The Dude]

Originally Posted by texasjefe

Good catch. I noted it in the OP. And if true, this just becomes another injustice by Goodell and I cannot wait for this matter to hit a real courtroom.

Yea the NFL vs players, that will be a fair trial. The NFL will own those judges and arbitrates, not to mention the NFL has enough money to exhaust the players funds through appeals. They are going to break these players one way or another.

[texasjefe]

Originally Posted by The Dude

Yea the NFL vs players, that will be a fair trial. The NFL will own those judges and arbitrates, not to mention the NFL has enough money to exhaust the players funds through appeals. They are going to break these players one way or another.

NFL has been losing in the courtroom and to the CBA special masters for about 5 years now, at least going back to the American needle case. It actually helps explain why the NFL resorts to contracting for their own extra-judicial power.

[Mardiboys]

I think Florio may have uncovered the true motivation - Durbin wanted to have hearings to make the NFL talk in Washington, and Goodell wanted to create a crisis to solve. He got his pat on the head from Durbin today with the bounty hotline stunt.

[FlySaint]

Originally Posted by mardiboys

i think florio may have uncovered the true motivation - durbin wanted to have hearings to make the nfl talk in washington, and goodell wanted to create a crisis to solve. He got his pat on the head from durbin today with the bounty hotline stunt.

^^this^^