How come Payton, Loomis, and Williams did not stand up for themselves like Vilma, Fujita, and Hargrove?

[jayd265]

whatever happened/happens. once payton retires... he's gonna write another great book spilling all these little secrets.

[BlackNGoldblood]

A friend of mine said to me why didn't Payton, Loomis and Vitt file defamation lawsuits like Vilma did?

[BlAcK-N-G0Ld]

Payton: even though im right be quiet and lose 7 million are make some noise and lose 30

[guillermo]

They haven't defend themselves, yet.

Just think what may happen if Vilma's suit ends in court. I may think that Payton, Loomis and Williams will be called as witness.

There, they have to answer under oath. They will explain exactly what happened and what didn't happened.

If Vilma's lawyer ask them why they have kept quiet until then, the comissioner will be in big trouble.

[Professor]

Goodell reminds me of Neidermeyer in the movie Animal House, grinning sadistically as the pledges (coaches) say, "Thank you, sir! May I have another?!"

[26ISTHEMAN]

A big part of the problem is that the media has promulgated the false notion that the coaches admitted that a bounty program existed. I have never read or heard anything to that effect. If anyone has, please feel free to correct me. The closest thing was GW admitting a P4P system, but we all know this is not about P4P, but about "bounties" and "intent to injure," etc. The Duncans of the world will tell you it's the same, but it's not even close to the same.

In the end, Payton & Co. will tell their side of the stroy in one of two forums: Vilma's lawsuit, if it makes it to the discovery stage (depositions) or trial (witness stand), or in a tell-all book after they retire, when they no longer have to worry about reprisal from the league.

[Guido Merkins]

We had a program in place and lied about it. We gave the NFL a reason to jump on us and they did.

We can scream and shout all we want, but the fact of the matter is the responsibility still lies with the Saints because if we weren't doing what we were doing and if we didn't try and cover it up, we wouldn't be in this situation. Has the NFL made a mountain out of a molehill?? Probably, but like I said, we let them do it by our actions.

Last year, my daughter was accused of cheating on a test. She swears she didn't do it. However, before the test, the teacher told them to put their books away. My daughter leaves her book open on the floor under her desk. Now, did she cheat?? I don't know, but her actions left her open to the possibility that someone could assume she was. We got both sides of the story, then told her that she needed to accept her punishment and learn a lesson, basically, cover your own ***. The Saints might not be guilty of everything the NFL is accusing, but we aren't innocent either.

[shrike3000]

Originally Posted by Guido Merkins

We had a program in place and lied about it. We gave the NFL a reason to jump on us and they did.

We can scream and shout all we want, but the fact of the matter is the responsibility still lies with the Saints because if we weren't doing what we were doing and if we didn't try and cover it up, we wouldn't be in this situation. Has the NFL made a mountain out of a molehill?? Probably, but like I said, we let them do it by our actions.

Last year, my daughter was accused of cheating on a test. She swears she didn't do it. However, before the test, the teacher told them to put their books away. My daughter leaves her book open on the floor under her desk. Now, did she cheat?? I don't know, but her actions left her open to the possibility that someone could assume she was. We got both sides of the story, then told her that she needed to accept her punishment and learn a lesson, basically, cover your own ***. The Saints might not be guilty of everything the NFL is accusing, but we aren't innocent either.

It's questionable if we even lied though... We had a pay for performance. They asked if we had bounties. They define them as the same, we do not. Its entirely possible they did not believe they were lying when they spoke to the NFL.

Also from all account many many teams had PFP systems in place just like us, certainly leading the people involved to believe what they were doing was commonplace and really not wrong at all.

[FullMonte]

Originally Posted by BlackNGoldblood

A friend of mine said to me why didn't Payton, Loomis and Vitt file defamation lawsuits like Vilma did?

I haven't followed the evidence on the coach/gm issue, and I'm not even sure if they ever released much of that evidence...But didn't they have evidence that Payton lied to the league, and tried to cover this whole thing up? Didn't they have evidence that he was told to put a stop to it, and that it continued after that?

The big thing to remember here is that Payton wasn't suspended because there was a bounty/p4p system in place. He was suspended for lying to the league and attempting a cover up. Based on what I've seen in the media, there is a fair amount of evidence that he did those two things.

What ends up stining the most is that he's being suspended for attempting to cover up something that wasn't as bad as the league is making it out to be.

[Guido Merkins]

Originally Posted by shrike3000

It's questionable if we even lied though... We had a pay for performance. They asked if we had bounties. They define them as the same, we do not. Its entirely possible they did not believe they were lying when they spoke to the NFL.

Also from all account many many teams had PFP systems in place just like us, certainly leading the people involved to believe what they were doing was commonplace and really not wrong at all.

I'm not saying the Saints weren't simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Clearly the timing of this is critical with the concussion lawsuit.

However, the fact remains that we weren't completely clean. We gave them an excuse to jump on us and they did.

All the uproar won't matter in the end. It's over. Vilma might get his day in a civil court, but other than that, it's over. If something comes out of that trial, IMO, the owners are STILL going to back Godell unless it comes out that Godell created evidence, which I don't think is true. The owners like Godell right now because he is trying to save them in the concussion suit. Also, they aren't opposed to having a sacrificial lamb so Godell doesn't go snooping around them.

Like I said, not saying it's fair, but we left ourselves open.

[shrike3000]

Originally Posted by Guido Merkins

I'm not saying the Saints weren't simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Clearly the timing of this is critical with the concussion lawsuit.

However, the fact remains that we weren't completely clean. We gave them an excuse to jump on us and they did.

All the uproar won't matter in the end. It's over. Vilma might get his day in a civil court, but other than that, it's over. If something comes out of that trial, IMO, the owners are STILL going to back Godell unless it comes out that Godell created evidence, which I don't think is true. The owners like Godell right now because he is trying to save them in the concussion suit. Also, they aren't opposed to having a sacrificial lamb so Godell doesn't go snooping around them.

Like I said, not saying it's fair, but we left ourselves open.

I don't think it's over in the court of public opinion just yet. The reporters are finally starting to ask questions and I think its turning the tide in our favor.

[Guido Merkins]

Originally Posted by shrike3000

I don't think it's over in the court of public opinion just yet. The reporters are finally starting to ask questions and I think its turning the tide in our favor.

I don't think it matters what the public thinks. As far as the media, many of them have said the Payton penalty was too harsh. So what?? What has that gotten us??

If we were completely innocent of anything, I would say there is a reason to fight. We aren't. Nothing is going to change.

[NaJ88]

Originally Posted by ChopperSaint

I think that was a huge mistake.
Its the only thing keeping the media from giving the Saints almost there full support.

Why did Payton, Loomis, and Williams roll over so easily?

After seeing the individual press conferences from Vilma, Fujita, and Hargrove it makes me wonder.

Its kind of hard for the players stance to have much force if the the coaches rolled over without any resistance against the NFL.

If the coaches would have had the attitude as the players did, we might be in a different situation then we are in right now.

Its the only time I have ever been upset with the way Payton has handled something since he's been here.

Every comment from the media about what the players have been saying sounds something like this:


"Man, Vilma, Fujita, and Hargrove sure do sound legit, but the coaches pretty much admitted to the bounties so its really does not matter what the players say."

I really dont understand it.
If it would have been handled differently I dont think Payton would have been suspended the entire season.

I don't think Payton and Loomis knew enough about the truth behind the allegations to dispute them. Goodell said that Payton "should have" known what was going on and the same could be said for Loomis. I doubt either one of them was very involved with defensive meetings and probably were simply concerned with trying to appeal their suspensions due to the belief that they were not ultimately responsible for whatever was happening under Williams.

As to why Williams didn't vehemently deny the allegations, I have no clue. Vitt offered to take a polygraph test and has been very outspoken, but all we know about Williams is that the league supplied him with the statement they wanted him to release to the public. He also never used the term bounty in his official statement, which included apologies "for my actions" and "for my involvement" without saying what the violation was. He outlined that they were doing something that seemed to violate rules concerning safety and sportsmanship, but never came out and said "I'm sorry for running a bounty program" which would obviously have cleared up quite a bit. Maybe he didn't do this because he wasn't fully aware of the extent of the allegations at the time either.

Either way, the coaches are probably much more concerned with behaving in the eyes of the NFL than clearing their "innocence", because if the NFL (who has all the power as per the CBA) ultimately doesn't conclude that any of the Saints were "innocent", any coach who spoke up might have signed his own death certificate.

[FlySaint]

From a JD article in April (sorry..):

"The Saints need to keep their house in order and follow the league's directives. If so, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has dangled a couple of carrots for them as post-suspension rewards.

First, if the Saints cooperate with the NFL and "assist in the development and implementation of programs to instruct players and coaches at all levels on principles of player safety, fair play, and sportsmanship" the league will consider "modifying" the forfeiture of their 2013 second-round draft pick.

In other words, if the Saints keep their noses clean and work with the league on some of their player-safety programs they could get their second-round pick back next season. That's big.

Also, the league said it will consider reducing the financial penalties on some individuals."

So that partially explains why they're keeping quiet...blackmail...

The New Orleans Saints' appeal to the NFL could bear fruit - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com