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It's been reported that Graham is looking for $12 mill/yr. You are Loomis, what would you do?
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:05 PM   #85
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What's even crazier is he had 7 yards on one of his carries.

The other 8 carries netted 4 yards. That's half a yard per carry in case you're keeping score.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:10 PM   #86
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It's almost like Ingram does something with his body language that keys the DEF in on where he is going to go..

SP needs to send him out to the flat a few times for some receptions to keep the DEF from keying in on him..
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:12 PM   #87
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There are some limitations to his game...he's an old school back, this offense works better with versatile backs..players who are threats all over the field...PT is a jack of all trades and Sproles and Cadet can run traditional sets and lineup in the slot.

Robinson has proved to be a punt and kick returner in college and his hard running/shifty running style helps him create big plays in the run and passing game. Ingram is a north south grind it out back who can catch a check down pass and make a play, he'd be great if he played for the Steelers or Vikings but not the Saints who prefer our running backs be more versatile because its easier to disguise the design of the play, and why we see more production from PT and Sproles when they are in the game because you don't know if its run or pass.
You maybe right, perhaps MI can excel in a different offense which features one RB more. I just don't buy into the argument that we need to feed him the ball more to have him be more effective.

He's not Adrian Peterson, Ray Rice, or Jamaal Charles, Maurice-Jones Drew or Arian Foster. Hell, even Arian Foster shares time with Ben Tate.

I'd take Ben Tate in our offense over Mark Ingram. I'd take that trade right. now.

My problem is that for three years there's been discussion about him being a grind-it-out, north and south runner, but he can't do anything in short yardage situations. He doesn't break tackles.

Again, I'm not hating, I'm just basing what I've seen for three years and the fact that good RBs tend to light it up early--look at how PT, Ivory and even Deuce came into his own after his rookie year. We're not talking about a LB, QB, or safety here, where the learning curve is a bit longer.

My only criticism of using Ingram is that maybe he should have been used more in the passing game, but he doesn't have the speed that Sproles has, nor has the vision of PT to run effective screen passes. And he isn't exactly a great outlet receiver because he can't break tackles or run away from people.

What can he do? We had endless debates on this board that R. Bush was rather one-dimensional in that he was inconsistent in the running game. I'd take Bush right now over Ingram.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:15 PM   #88
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I am glad payton sees it too, he was just in to spell Pierre, instead of like last year where he was the feature guy, I still would like to see Khiry in that role though.

If you can't run in paytons offense where you see a lot of 7 or less in the box, lets face it , they are worried about Brees not Ingram.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:19 PM   #89
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Not a fan of Ingram haven't seen really anything good going on his third season
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:19 PM   #90
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To the people making excuses: I don't care why he isn't successful. I care that he kills a drive every time we hand him the ball. Maybe he's the most talented RB in the league, but if it doesn't translate to play on the field then it's worthless. Worse than worthless. As things currently stand he's an active detriment to the team.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:24 PM   #91
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Here are some of Ingram's runs:

1st carry: 3 yard rush
There's no hole where the play is headed so Ingram bounces outside. He pushed his way forward for 2 of those 3 yards, but there was nowhere to go. He attempted to follow Collins into the hole but there was nothing there. As the second picture shows, if he follows Collins then he's tackled for -2.






2nd carry: -1 yard rush
4th-and-1 and there's 5 defenders across the LOS when the handoff occurs. 4 of them are either disengaged or only partially occupied by blockers. There's not a single hole to be found.




4th carry: -4 yard rush
As soon as Ingram gets the ball, #99 has pushed Grubbs right into his path. There's a free defender past the LOS to the right and #96 ends up getting around Brown's block on the left. Again, no hole at all.






5th carry: 2 yard rush
There's not much of a hole to be seen from this camera angle, maybe between dela Puente and Evans, but by the time Ingram hits it, #91 is off de la Puente's block (and actually spins him around 360 degrees) and he tackles Ingram into Evans.






7th carry: 3 yard rush
A stretch play to the left, neither Graham nor Watson block their man sufficiently (Graham just plain gets beat) and Stills can't block his man long enough. Ingram was still able to get the edge and pick up 3. He could've easily lost 3 thanks to the TEs.






8th carry: -3 yard rush
As soon as Ingram gets the ball, #95 is already in his face (going right past Grubbs). He spins out of 95's tackle, but another defender #21 was already in the backfield to the left. He tries going to the right but the Falcons pursue and get him down for a loss.




That's 6 of his 9 touches for 0 yards. Look at these images. Re-watch the plays. If you still blame Ingram for his poor performance, you're certifiably insane. I don't see what he could've done barring growing wings and taking flight over the field. This is absolutely atrocious blocking.

If, like Anteros said, you don't care about the why, that's perfectly understandable and is the most logical course. I'm personally fine if he's only used occasionally (last year we hit a TON of big plays on play action with Ingram) while PT get's the lion's share. But it's embarrassing to see people blaming Ingram for things out of his control. He can't block for himself.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:27 PM   #92
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Just curious does anyone know how many yards Ingram lost in the game? Seemed like a lot of runs for negative yards.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:29 PM   #93
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I have been an advocate of his. I watched a couple of plays where d line was in backfield.

But what about on 4th down turnover. Stretch play and a huge back door cut opened But instead he ran into Jed and was tackled. He runs with head down and doesn't wait on blocks. He may do better somewhere else. He doesn't fit with us tho
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:34 PM   #94
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other teams don't play those kinds of running backs

why do we endure it?

At least Khiry Robinson would be productive running the ball.

What makes anyone so sure that Robinson would have been any more productive today with the pathetic play of the offensive line today!!

The way the offensive line was blocking Adrian Peterson would have had pedestrian numbers!!

Just look at how many times Brees was hit, sacked, and hurried!!

The entire line played like crap!!.............particularly Ben Grubs and Charles Brown!!
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:36 PM   #95
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That's 6 of his 9 touches for 0 yards. Look at these images. Re-watch the plays. If you still blame Ingram for his poor performance, you're certifiably insane. I don't see what he could've done barring growing wings and taking flight over the field. This is absolutely atrocious blocking.

If, like Anteros said, you don't care about the why, that's perfectly understandable and is the most logical course. I'm personally fine if he's only used occasionally (last year we hit a TON of big plays on play action with Ingram) while PT get's the lion's share. But it's embarrassing to see people blaming Ingram for things out of his control. He can't block for himself.
Whether you agree or disagree on this subject, this post is a heckuva a lot more informative than most. Thanks for posting!
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:36 PM   #96
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Ingram carries
didn't have anywhere to go most of the time but there were a few carries where he could have gotten better gains

lots of suck all the way around
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:37 PM   #97
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I have been an advocate of his. I watched a couple of plays where d line was in backfield.

But what about on 4th down turnover. Stretch play and a huge back door cut opened But instead he ran into Jed and was tackled. He runs with head down and doesn't wait on blocks. He may do better somewhere else. He doesn't fit with us tho
I'm not sure what play you're watching. The 4th-and-1 wasn't a stretch play and there wasn't any backside cut to be had. He'd need to stop immediately upon receiving the handoff, then run full-speed to the left sideline, making sure to avoid #29 who is pushing Toon clear into the backfield. Asking a little much, don'tcha think?

There's no real way he could've even seen that "opening" because the play is going to the right. He'd need to be looking to the left of the formation before he looked to where the play was designed to go for that to even be a remote possibility.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:38 PM   #98
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Here are some of Ingram's runs:

1st carry: 3 yard rush
There's no hole where the play is headed so Ingram bounces outside. He pushed his way forward for 2 of those 3 yards, but there was nowhere to go. He attempted to follow Collins into the hole but there was nothing there. As the second picture shows, if he follows Collins then he's tackled for -2.






2nd carry: -1 yard rush
4th-and-1 and there's 5 defenders across the LOS when the handoff occurs. 4 of them are either disengaged or only partially occupied by blockers. There's not a single hole to be found.




4th carry: -4 yard rush
As soon as Ingram gets the ball, #99 has pushed Grubbs right into his path. There's a free defender past the LOS to the right and #96 ends up getting around Brown's block on the left. Again, no hole at all.






5th carry: 2 yard rush
There's not much of a hole to be seen from this camera angle, maybe between dela Puente and Evans, but by the time Ingram hits it, #91 is off de la Puente's block (and actually spins him around 360 degrees) and he tackles Ingram into Evans.






7th carry: 3 yard rush
A stretch play to the left, neither Graham nor Watson block their man sufficiently (Graham just plain gets beat) and Stills can't block his man long enough. Ingram was still able to get the edge and pick up 3. He could've easily lost 3 thanks to the TEs.






8th carry: -3 yard rush
As soon as Ingram gets the ball, #95 is already in his face (going right past Grubbs). He spins out of 95's tackle, but another defender #21 was already in the backfield to the left. He tries going to the right but the Falcons pursue and get him down for a loss.




That's 6 of his 9 touches for 0 yards. Look at these images. Re-watch the plays. If you still blame Ingram for his poor performance, you're certifiably insane. I don't see what he could've done barring growing wings and taking flight over the field. This is absolutely atrocious blocking.

If, like Anteros said, you don't care about the why, that's perfectly understandable and is the most logical course. I'm personally fine if he's only used occasionally (last year we hit a TON of big plays on play action with Ingram) while PT get's the lion's share. But it's embarrassing to see people blaming Ingram for things out of his control. He can't block for himself.
Great post!!..........................in almost every one of those pics there are 4-5 Falcons defenders past the LOS before the back can take 2 steps!!

And people are claiming that the line did their job today??..............if they did I didn't see it!!
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