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Old 09-08-2013, 11:24 PM   #91
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Here are some of Ingram's runs:

1st carry: 3 yard rush
There's no hole where the play is headed so Ingram bounces outside. He pushed his way forward for 2 of those 3 yards, but there was nowhere to go. He attempted to follow Collins into the hole but there was nothing there. As the second picture shows, if he follows Collins then he's tackled for -2.






2nd carry: -1 yard rush
4th-and-1 and there's 5 defenders across the LOS when the handoff occurs. 4 of them are either disengaged or only partially occupied by blockers. There's not a single hole to be found.




4th carry: -4 yard rush
As soon as Ingram gets the ball, #99 has pushed Grubbs right into his path. There's a free defender past the LOS to the right and #96 ends up getting around Brown's block on the left. Again, no hole at all.






5th carry: 2 yard rush
There's not much of a hole to be seen from this camera angle, maybe between dela Puente and Evans, but by the time Ingram hits it, #91 is off de la Puente's block (and actually spins him around 360 degrees) and he tackles Ingram into Evans.






7th carry: 3 yard rush
A stretch play to the left, neither Graham nor Watson block their man sufficiently (Graham just plain gets beat) and Stills can't block his man long enough. Ingram was still able to get the edge and pick up 3. He could've easily lost 3 thanks to the TEs.






8th carry: -3 yard rush
As soon as Ingram gets the ball, #95 is already in his face (going right past Grubbs). He spins out of 95's tackle, but another defender #21 was already in the backfield to the left. He tries going to the right but the Falcons pursue and get him down for a loss.




That's 6 of his 9 touches for 0 yards. Look at these images. Re-watch the plays. If you still blame Ingram for his poor performance, you're certifiably insane. I don't see what he could've done barring growing wings and taking flight over the field. This is absolutely atrocious blocking.

If, like Anteros said, you don't care about the why, that's perfectly understandable and is the most logical course. I'm personally fine if he's only used occasionally (last year we hit a TON of big plays on play action with Ingram) while PT get's the lion's share. But it's embarrassing to see people blaming Ingram for things out of his control. He can't block for himself.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:27 PM   #92
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Just curious does anyone know how many yards Ingram lost in the game? Seemed like a lot of runs for negative yards.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:29 PM   #93
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I have been an advocate of his. I watched a couple of plays where d line was in backfield.

But what about on 4th down turnover. Stretch play and a huge back door cut opened But instead he ran into Jed and was tackled. He runs with head down and doesn't wait on blocks. He may do better somewhere else. He doesn't fit with us tho
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:34 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintSproles View Post
other teams don't play those kinds of running backs

why do we endure it?

At least Khiry Robinson would be productive running the ball.

What makes anyone so sure that Robinson would have been any more productive today with the pathetic play of the offensive line today!!

The way the offensive line was blocking Adrian Peterson would have had pedestrian numbers!!

Just look at how many times Brees was hit, sacked, and hurried!!

The entire line played like crap!!.............particularly Ben Grubs and Charles Brown!!
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:36 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by NPs6724 View Post

That's 6 of his 9 touches for 0 yards. Look at these images. Re-watch the plays. If you still blame Ingram for his poor performance, you're certifiably insane. I don't see what he could've done barring growing wings and taking flight over the field. This is absolutely atrocious blocking.

If, like Anteros said, you don't care about the why, that's perfectly understandable and is the most logical course. I'm personally fine if he's only used occasionally (last year we hit a TON of big plays on play action with Ingram) while PT get's the lion's share. But it's embarrassing to see people blaming Ingram for things out of his control. He can't block for himself.
Whether you agree or disagree on this subject, this post is a heckuva a lot more informative than most. Thanks for posting!
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:36 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitySaint View Post
Ingram carries
didn't have anywhere to go most of the time but there were a few carries where he could have gotten better gains

lots of suck all the way around
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:37 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelbywmccarty View Post
I have been an advocate of his. I watched a couple of plays where d line was in backfield.

But what about on 4th down turnover. Stretch play and a huge back door cut opened But instead he ran into Jed and was tackled. He runs with head down and doesn't wait on blocks. He may do better somewhere else. He doesn't fit with us tho
I'm not sure what play you're watching. The 4th-and-1 wasn't a stretch play and there wasn't any backside cut to be had. He'd need to stop immediately upon receiving the handoff, then run full-speed to the left sideline, making sure to avoid #29 who is pushing Toon clear into the backfield. Asking a little much, don'tcha think?

There's no real way he could've even seen that "opening" because the play is going to the right. He'd need to be looking to the left of the formation before he looked to where the play was designed to go for that to even be a remote possibility.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:38 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NPs6724 View Post
Here are some of Ingram's runs:

1st carry: 3 yard rush
There's no hole where the play is headed so Ingram bounces outside. He pushed his way forward for 2 of those 3 yards, but there was nowhere to go. He attempted to follow Collins into the hole but there was nothing there. As the second picture shows, if he follows Collins then he's tackled for -2.






2nd carry: -1 yard rush
4th-and-1 and there's 5 defenders across the LOS when the handoff occurs. 4 of them are either disengaged or only partially occupied by blockers. There's not a single hole to be found.




4th carry: -4 yard rush
As soon as Ingram gets the ball, #99 has pushed Grubbs right into his path. There's a free defender past the LOS to the right and #96 ends up getting around Brown's block on the left. Again, no hole at all.






5th carry: 2 yard rush
There's not much of a hole to be seen from this camera angle, maybe between dela Puente and Evans, but by the time Ingram hits it, #91 is off de la Puente's block (and actually spins him around 360 degrees) and he tackles Ingram into Evans.






7th carry: 3 yard rush
A stretch play to the left, neither Graham nor Watson block their man sufficiently (Graham just plain gets beat) and Stills can't block his man long enough. Ingram was still able to get the edge and pick up 3. He could've easily lost 3 thanks to the TEs.






8th carry: -3 yard rush
As soon as Ingram gets the ball, #95 is already in his face (going right past Grubbs). He spins out of 95's tackle, but another defender #21 was already in the backfield to the left. He tries going to the right but the Falcons pursue and get him down for a loss.




That's 6 of his 9 touches for 0 yards. Look at these images. Re-watch the plays. If you still blame Ingram for his poor performance, you're certifiably insane. I don't see what he could've done barring growing wings and taking flight over the field. This is absolutely atrocious blocking.

If, like Anteros said, you don't care about the why, that's perfectly understandable and is the most logical course. I'm personally fine if he's only used occasionally (last year we hit a TON of big plays on play action with Ingram) while PT get's the lion's share. But it's embarrassing to see people blaming Ingram for things out of his control. He can't block for himself.
Great post!!..........................in almost every one of those pics there are 4-5 Falcons defenders past the LOS before the back can take 2 steps!!

And people are claiming that the line did their job today??..............if they did I didn't see it!!
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:39 PM   #99
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That Mark Ingram is something else.

We should be feeding him the ball more.

18 carries, 22 yards, anyone?
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:42 PM   #100
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1. The defense knows we are running, thus they are at the LOS in a much quicker manner than with Sproles or PT, therefore giving us less chance to succeed
2. Ingram is the slowest of the 3 running backs to get to the LOS, tip toeing and dancing, essentially taking false steps getting him in a heap of trouble
3. Nothing will ever change in regards to how effective Mark Ingram will be as a running back for the Saints, he is who he is, a square peg in a round hole regarding our offensive machine. Sproles and PT are the Saints prototypical running backs in this offense. We need to get a 3rd RB that is just like those 2.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:46 PM   #101
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As much as the Giants need an RB I'd love to see Loomis deal Ingram to them for a CB or an OLB because Khiry Robinson can play Ingram's "role" much more effectively, and cheaper.

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Old 09-08-2013, 11:47 PM   #102
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after seeing all the Ingram carries. This is a pt carry. Huge hole. Big gain

. Stretch. No where to go but outside. Watsons guys beats him. -1 yd

another pt and pretty good hole.
5 yrds

sproles with nothing and gets 1

pt. pretty nice hole opening. 4 yds

pt. Evans beat and holds. Lb coming quick. -1 yd.


I don't know what this all means. We aren't great at running the ball. We are hit and miss and Ingram didn't get the better end of blocking this game. Hope it gets better
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:48 PM   #103
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Let's all take a deep breath and a giant step backwards. Was Ingram impressive today? No.
But whether it's 2 yards or 20 yards, as long as they're positive yards, I'll take it.

I expect he'll do better depending on the play call and defensive scheme.

If he doesn't improve, I'm certain that SP will remedy that in a hurry.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:51 PM   #104
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You maybe right, perhaps MI can excel in a different offense which features one RB more. I just don't buy into the argument that we need to feed him the ball more to have him be more effective.

He's not Adrian Peterson, Ray Rice, or Jamaal Charles, Maurice-Jones Drew or Arian Foster. Hell, even Arian Foster shares time with Ben Tate.

I'd take Ben Tate in our offense over Mark Ingram. I'd take that trade right. now.

My problem is that for three years there's been discussion about him being a grind-it-out, north and south runner, but he can't do anything in short yardage situations. He doesn't break tackles.

Again, I'm not hating, I'm just basing what I've seen for three years and the fact that good RBs tend to light it up early--look at how PT, Ivory and even Deuce came into his own after his rookie year. We're not talking about a LB, QB, or safety here, where the learning curve is a bit longer.

My only criticism of using Ingram is that maybe he should have been used more in the passing game, but he doesn't have the speed that Sproles has, nor has the vision of PT to run effective screen passes. And he isn't exactly a great outlet receiver because he can't break tackles or run away from people.

What can he do? We had endless debates on this board that R. Bush was rather one-dimensional in that he was inconsistent in the running game. I'd take Bush right now over Ingram.
I would definitely take Bush over Ingram. Bush was inconsistent in the run game but he was good for at least one highlight reel a game whether it was a run, pass, or punt return. I can recall only one really good run from Ingram 2 years ago against the Giants. That is flat out pathetic. Maybe we should stop drafting Heisman Trophy winners.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:52 PM   #105
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Quote:
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1. The defense knows we are running, thus they are at the LOS in a much quicker manner than with Sproles or PT, therefore giving us less chance to succeed
2. Ingram is the slowest of the 3 running backs to get to the LOS, tip toeing and dancing, essentially taking false steps getting him in a heap of trouble
3. Nothing will ever change in regards to how effective Mark Ingram will be as a running back for the Saints, he is who he is, a square peg in a round hole regarding our offensive machine. Sproles and PT are the Saints prototypical running backs in this offense. We need to get a 3rd RB that is just like those 2.
You're just being a smart *** at this point. NPs thread with pictures and CitySaints video is a lot more informative than your useless bashing. Drive killers happen because your guards are getting pushed three yards behind the LOS on running plays. I can't believe after a huge divisional win, this crap is taking up most of the attention.
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