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Old 02-22-2013, 09:08 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Saints & Devils View Post
No one with actual links to the saints is going to be telling Jason Cole a damn thing. The man has hated all things Saints ever since we drafted Bush and stuck with long after Bush walked and loved every second of the bounty saga.

Not to mention Jimmy has never wavered in the fact that we doesn't want to play without Drew Brees as his QB, and while he absolutely deserves to be paid as a top TE, wont go the greedy route because he is, in every possible way, a good person!
You know we said the same thing about Drew, not being greedy. Drew held out to get every penny he thought he deserved. We know he deserved a big contract, and he got his. Graham is a great guy but if he doesnt get what he thinks he should get, he will hold out.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:20 AM   #44
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He's good, but for $12,000,000/year, it's important to remember that we won a Super Bowl without him.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:20 AM   #45
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Sorry but we would be nuts to pay $12M to a TE. Even the best one on the planet.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:21 AM   #46
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The 12M is speculation. The point about them seeing if Cook can get the Franchise tag for WR's vs TE's is significant and probably true. Just like Suggs was trying to make sure he was Franchised as a DE or DT, not a LB, since 3-4OLB's are more like DE's (who are paid a lot more than LB's)

Now, looking at the last three big TE contracts

Witten is making around 7mil/year average
Vernon Davis is also making around 7mil/year average
and Gronkowski is actually making around 7mil/year, but his extension was for around 9mil/year.

So, I think the 9Mil/year average is probably the set point.

The Saints could also use the Colston contract as support that he'd still be paid more than their top WR. Colston is averaging around 7.2Mil/year.

Even Vincent Jackson who signed a big contract is averaging 11mil/year.

Graham is a great TE, but he's not even our #1 receiving option. So, he can't be looking after #1 receiver money. He's looking at top TE or #2 receiver money.. whichever is higher.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:23 AM   #47
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I don't take anything of this article since the talks between the saints and Graham haven't started.

But we all know that Jimmy will command one of top 3 TE's contract in the history of the league. And we also know the cap position we are dealing with.

The reality of the matter is that Drew's contract makes it impossible to negotiate other all-star contracts.

I am not saying an agreement can't be done, but it will be really difficult to keep Graham, or any other young player that may arise to the occasion, in the next 5 years.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:26 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guillermo View Post
I don't take anything of this article since the talks between the saints and Graham haven't started.

But we all know that Jimmy will command one of top 3 TE's contract in the history of the league. And we also know the cap position we are dealing with.

The reality of the matter is that Drew's contract makes it impossible to negotiate other all-star contracts.

I am not saying an agreement can't be done, but it will be really difficult to keep Graham, or any other young player that may arise to the occasion, in the next 5 years.
*reaches for antidepressants
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:33 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guillermo View Post
I don't take anything of this article since the talks between the saints and Graham haven't started.

But we all know that Jimmy will command one of top 3 TE's contract in the history of the league. And we also know the cap position we are dealing with.

The reality of the matter is that Drew's contract makes it impossible to negotiate other all-star contracts.

I am not saying an agreement can't be done, but it will be really difficult to keep Graham, or any other young player that may arise to the occasion, in the next 5 years.
It's not that dire.

Rob Gronkowski Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

We've had a cap north of 110M for quite a few years now and when a salary is too bloated compared to the value there, we move on from the player.

We always shuffle guys out. There will always be 4-10 big contracts that take up most of the cap money.

Don't forget the big contracts that were no longer worth it.. Grant, Stinchcomb (injury), McCray, Bush... probably soon Will Smith (or new contract).

The reality is that if you want to keep certain A+ players, you have to let go of some B+ or C+ guys.

Don't fret. As I showed a few posts up, the 12M set point isn't reasonable.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:42 AM   #50
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$12 million? Oooof! No way that can happen. bclemms tag plan is, I'm sure, what we'll do.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:54 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Ward View Post
The 12M is speculation. The point about them seeing if Cook can get the Franchise tag for WR's vs TE's is significant and probably true. Just like Suggs was trying to make sure he was Franchised as a DE or DT, not a LB, since 3-4OLB's are more like DE's (who are paid a lot more than LB's)

Now, looking at the last three big TE contracts

Witten is making around 7mil/year average
Vernon Davis is also making around 7mil/year average
and Gronkowski is actually making around 7mil/year, but his extension was for around 9mil/year.

So, I think the 9Mil/year average is probably the set point.

The Saints could also use the Colston contract as support that he'd still be paid more than their top WR. Colston is averaging around 7.2Mil/year.

Even Vincent Jackson who signed a big contract is averaging 11mil/year.

Graham is a great TE, but he's not even our #1 receiving option. So, he can't be looking after #1 receiver money. He's looking at top TE or #2 receiver money.. whichever is higher.
I agree with the majority of your post. However, if he isn't our #1 receiving option, then why does he lead our team in receiving targets the last two years?

Agree to disagree I suppose, I just think he is our #1 option and with him coming back healthy next year, will again lead our team in targets/receptions/yards like 2011.


Another question to ponder, would Sean Payton, with his offensive mind, line up Jimmy solely at TE next season to save money on his contract? I just can't see it happening with his love for mismatches; and keeping him solely in the 3 point stance doesnt do that.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:55 AM   #52
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Drew's contract situation proved to me that it's all about the money. There's no discount for whatever loyalty they claim to have. Sure, they talk and talk about not wanting to play anywhere else and how much they love the city, but it still only comes down to money. It's the sad state of professional sports. Our biggest problem is, Drew pretty much broke the bank with his demands. Say what you want, it has hurt us with other players. Now we may be faced with having to find diamonds in the rough. We may be going the cheap, risky route in order to find someone we can afford. I know Drew is a bit off limits, but the truth is the truth. Hopefully Loomis & Co. will continue to do a good job, but looking for big name FA's and signing the rising stars on our own team will be a tough task.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:07 AM   #53
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$12 million? Oooof! No way that can happen. bclemms tag plan is, I'm sure, what we'll do.
That is the most cost effective way, unless he plays the majority of the snaps at WR, thus what would we do? If that happens his tag numbers go through the roof. I think this would be the difference in money (based on this years franchise #'s i found on NFL.com).

WR:
2014 - $10.357
2015 - $12.428 (120% of 2014)
2016 - $17.897 (144% of 2015)
Total of 40.682 / 3 year = $13.56 mil a year

TE:
2014 - $5.962
2015 - $7.154
2016 - $10.302
Total of 23.418/ 3 years = $7.81 mil a year

Also, does anyone know if when determining when the percentage of snaps to be considered a WR or TE, is all 4 years of his previous contract looked at or only the most recent season??
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:17 AM   #54
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Graham's agent will be asking for $12 Million. Jimmy had an off season last year, so now is the time for Loomis to try to extend his contracts. Give him a deal close to the same as Colston's.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:31 AM   #55
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I love him and would pay dearly but not to the extent it kills our cap. Remember, we won a SB without him.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:37 AM   #56
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First, I cannot believe how everyone is reacting or should I say overreacting to a Jason Cole article. "Sources say" is speculation unless Jimmy says.

Second, I expect Jimmy's contract to be much in line with the contract that Gronk got, perhaps with a few more marbles thrown in given the timing of the deal.

Finally, I think if there was one thing I could critique Loomis and company on is the timing of our deals. We tend to wait out signing most of our players to extensions. The problem, however, is that we end up paying much more than we might have paid if we had been a little more proactive in getting a deal done earlier. For instance, a Brees extension had been rumored for two years before it got done. If we do it at the time that Brady did his deal, we would have said $20+ million on the total deal. Gronk has been extended. Right now, if we extend Jimmy, it might cost us around $9 million. But if we wait until the end of his deal, I would not be surprised if that prices goes up to $10.5 to $12 million a deal.

I completely understand Loomis' approach to making players "play" out their entire deal before getting a new contract in most cases. But the problem with that approach is that it ends up costing us much more, and more adversely affects our cap situation.
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