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Old 02-22-2013, 10:39 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by scrummy mustard View Post
I agree with the majority of your post. However, if he isn't our #1 receiving option, then why does he lead our team in receiving targets the last two years?

Agree to disagree I suppose, I just think he is our #1 option and with him coming back healthy next year, will again lead our team in targets/receptions/yards like 2011.


Another question to ponder, would Sean Payton, with his offensive mind, line up Jimmy solely at TE next season to save money on his contract? I just can't see it happening with his love for mismatches; and keeping him solely in the 3 point stance doesnt do that.
Ok, fair enough on the #1 receiving option in terms of targets. However, in 2012 we're splitting hairs. Colston had 83 receptions vs 85 for Graham. However, Colston had 1154 yards vs 982. Also, in 2011 Colston got hurt and missed a few games and only started in 7 of them. In that year he only had 19 less receptions than Graham.

In either case, then Graham's contract shouldn't blow out Colston's just for 21 more receptions and an equivalent number of yards over 2 years. it will be Similar. I think the price range stays the same as I stated.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:43 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by BIGPOPPA View Post
Drew's contract situation proved to me that it's all about the money. There's no discount for whatever loyalty they claim to have. Sure, they talk and talk about not wanting to play anywhere else and how much they love the city, but it still only comes down to money. It's the sad state of professional sports. Our biggest problem is, Drew pretty much broke the bank with his demands. Say what you want, it has hurt us with other players. Now we may be faced with having to find diamonds in the rough. We may be going the cheap, risky route in order to find someone we can afford. I know Drew is a bit off limits, but the truth is the truth. Hopefully Loomis & Co. will continue to do a good job, but looking for big name FA's and signing the rising stars on our own team will be a tough task.
So long as you put Brady, P. Manning, E. Manning, Stafford, Rivers, Romo, and eventually Rogers and Flacco in that list, fine.

Drew, in terms of cap dollars, in 2013 will still be the 4th or 5th most expensive QB in the league. That's fair, right? He's not even the most expensive cap hit.

Suddenly 103-105M dollars in cap space each year isn't enough to sign other big name players??
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:13 AM   #59
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I would offer him 6 mil with -50K for every dropped pass. And,,, he would have to promise to block better.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:22 AM   #60
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I would offer him 6 mil with -50K for every dropped pass. And,,, he would have to promise to block better.
hahaha nice, I'd venture to guess he might turn that one down though
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:36 AM   #61
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Then I wish him luck wherever he ends up after next season. He 100% deserves to be the highest-paid TE in the game, and I hope we find a way to make that happen here. But even he isn't worth $12 million annually with our cap situation.
Last year he was not close to being in Gronk's league. Gronk's contract would be the upper ceiling if Graham play's up to Gronk's level which he did 2 years ago, but not near close last year.

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NEW YORK All-Pro Rob Gronkowski agreed Friday to a $54 million deal with the New England Patriots, the richest contract for a tight end in NFL history.

The six-year deal includes $18.17 million guaranteed. It is a stunning move by the team for a player entering just his third NFL season, but the Patriots recognized the game-breaking skills of the record-setting Gronkowski.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:09 PM   #62
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he didnt play in 2009 and i think the saints did ok that year, if he goes then he goes..
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:40 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Swimmer View Post
Last year he was not close to being in Gronk's league. Gronk's contract would be the upper ceiling if Graham play's up to Gronk's level which he did 2 years ago, but not near close last year.
Everyone, Gronkowski's deal was an extension! Yea it was the highest amount ever for a tight end but it comes out to an average of $6.9 million a year, which is not the highest in the league. He took the security of a deal for less money.

It is very back loaded and essentially is only a 4 year - $18 million deal. Unless we franchise Jimmy, we are looking at paying him much more than what Gronkowski got.

Rob Gronkowski Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

Also, you do realize that Gronkowski and Jimmy had very similar stats last year? Yes, Gronkowski was hurt, but you can't say Jimmy wasn't close when statistically he had a comparable or even better season.

They aren't the same type of player either, yes you can compare them because they both are "TE's" but we do not ask Jimmy to block nearly as much as Gronkowski does with the Pats. Unfortunately for us, a WR gets paid much more than a TE; atleast we have the option to franchise (hopefully as a TE)
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:43 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Swimmer View Post
Last year he was not close to being in Gronk's league. Gronk's contract would be the upper ceiling if Graham play's up to Gronk's level which he did 2 years ago, but not near close last year.
In fairness, Jimmy played with a wrist injury that required surgery after the season. Even with missing a game, he still managed nearly 1000 yards and 10 tds. I think the contract that Gronk got is good barometer for what Jimmy should expect, perhaps with slightly more guaranteed money. That said, I think if we wait until a year or two (assuming he's franchised after his contract ends next year) to do the deal, he will likely command $12 million a season. We have to curtail that approach and try to get something done as soon as possible.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:21 PM   #65
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It's in both parties best interests to let this season play out if he is looking for $10 million plus. For the Saints, they need to see what Jimmy Graham shows up in 2013...the great 2011 version or the 2012 version. If Jimmy has another year like 2012 (injuries and/or inconsistency), then he's worth more in the $5-7 million range. If he has a season like 2011 where he catches close to 100 passes for 1500 yds and 12-15 TDs, then he's going to be able to command top dollar and at that point, the Saints have a decision as to how important they think TE is to this offense. It's really up to Jimmy at this point, though, to show the Saints that he is indispensable.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Swimmer View Post
Last year he was not close to being in Gronk's league. Gronk's contract would be the upper ceiling if Graham play's up to Gronk's level which he did 2 years ago, but not near close last year.
Issues with that:

1) it will be two years later, numbers naturally inflate
2) gronk was an extension, this - if left til next year- will essentially be straight free agency (more player risk playing out the contract, more player reward on the next one)
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:27 PM   #67
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We didn't win the Super Bowl with Graham but we don't have Shockey or Thomas now to come off of the bench either.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:48 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by scrummy mustard View Post
Everyone, Gronkowski's deal was an extension! Yea it was the highest amount ever for a tight end but it comes out to an average of $6.9 million a year, which is not the highest in the league. He took the security of a deal for less money.

It is very back loaded and essentially is only a 4 year - $18 million deal. Unless we franchise Jimmy, we are looking at paying him much more than what Gronkowski got.

Rob Gronkowski Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

Also, you do realize that Gronkowski and Jimmy had very similar stats last year? Yes, Gronkowski was hurt, but you can't say Jimmy wasn't close when statistically he had a comparable or even better season.

They aren't the same type of player either, yes you can compare them because they both are "TE's" but we do not ask Jimmy to block nearly as much as Gronkowski does with the Pats. Unfortunately for us, a WR gets paid much more than a TE; atleast we have the option to franchise (hopefully as a TE)
Yes, but that includes his 2 years remaining on his rookie deal.

If you just look at the extension, it's a 9Mil/year average.

Graham will get around 8-9Mil/year.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:57 PM   #69
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So long as you put Brady, P. Manning, E. Manning, Stafford, Rivers, Romo, and eventually Rogers and Flacco in that list, fine.

Drew, in terms of cap dollars, in 2013 will still be the 4th or 5th most expensive QB in the league. That's fair, right? He's not even the most expensive cap hit.

Suddenly 103-105M dollars in cap space each year isn't enough to sign other big name players??
I was referring to the Saint's Cap situation. All those player's enormous contracts are making their respective teams situations difficult also. Thats why I said it's the sad state of professional sports.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:12 PM   #70
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I would Luv to keep Graham but if he asks for $ 12 mil....i will chuck him the dueces! He will never be better on any other team...please believe dat!

Greed sometimes gets the best of people.... he should ask for 5-7 mil or keep it moving...
It wouldnt be the end of the world. Hate to see the guy go in 20XX, but look at the Pats for example.

They needed a TE and landed Gronk AND Hernandez. There are talented players out there. Part of the contract culture. In Loomis we trust.
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