Old Head Who Dats, School me on Archie Manning

bornnraisedwhodat · 06-16-2012, 10:05 PM

I was born in 82 so the earliest Saints QB I remember is Bobby Hebert. I always hear old head who dats talk about Archie, how if he had a team worth a damn around him he could have been a HOFer. But school me on him. How good was he as far as pure QB essential traits. What were some of your favorite Archie Moments. This has a lot to do with fathers day some of the great father/son personalities in the league. The Mannings, hate them or love them or one of the classiest IMO and are good for the NFL and New Orleans.

ndcc · 06-16-2012, 10:11 PM

In an era when the Saints were considered a joke... Archie was someone we were really proud of... as an All Pro in the NFL.

He never had a great defense behind him, IIRC, he was the only player in NFL history to win league MVP on a team with a LOSING record.

Buddy D. announces Manning's retirement (local news): http://youtu.be/4PeRDKuN4LA

NFL Films tribute to Archie Manning: http://youtu.be/SFCDkpFtpog

SaintsJunkie · 06-16-2012, 10:17 PM

I remember both well and Bobby Hebert was better, but we were so bad for so long Archie was the only qb we could even call good , and he wasn't that good,

both his sons are far better than him

Professor · 06-16-2012, 10:17 PM

Dr. Z, who once worked for Sports Illustrated before a stroke ended his career, has never had a great fondness for the Saints, but he has written that Manning still belonged in the HOF because of what he did with literally no team around him. He WAS the New Orleans Saints for many years. He nearly got the Saints into the playoffs, but the defense went into prevent mode when all the Rams (then in Los Angeles) needed was a FG to win. STUPID!!! The Saints finished 8-8 and out of the playoffs, of course.

He was a great scrambler (had to be because he had the worst O-line in the league) and would make plays out of nothing. Danny Abramowicz (hope I spelled that right) was a very bad O-coordinator for the Saints years ago but a very sure-handed WR for the Saints when Manning played, was a frequent target of Manning's. Manning was a GREAT QB who certainly would have been a HOFer had he played for a good team.

(Saints Junkie's memory is clouded. Hebert was a game manager who had a great defense. SJ was also six when Manning was drafted.)

bornnraisedwhodat · 06-16-2012, 10:26 PM

I watch a lot of old footage and I will always have the footage of Archie getting his entire jersey ripped off. Was that common in the league back then?

6stringslide · 06-16-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bornnraisedwhodat

I watch a lot of old footage and I will always have the footage of Archie getting his entire jersey ripped off. Was that common in the league back then?

Yes, they had tear away jerseys back in the day.

6stringslide · 06-16-2012, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintsJunkie

I remember both well and Bobby Hebert was better, but we were so bad for so long Archie was the only qb we could even call good , and he wasn't that good,

both his sons are far better than him

{mod edit -

keep it civil - kd} Archie was by far a better passer the Bobby ever was, he had a stronger arm and was more accurate. Arichie was a really good scrambler, and that kept him alive with the O line that we used to have. There was a running joke the he spent more time looking up at the lights on the celing of the dome than he did looking at the D. If Archie had been on a team with a good O line he would be in the HOF.

bornnraisedwhodat · 06-16-2012, 10:39 PM

Looking at some old clips, Archie reminds me of Aaron Rodger, the way he plays.

kooldak · 06-16-2012, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6stringslide

...Archie was by far a better passer the Bobby ever was, he had a stronger arm and was more accurate. Arichie was a really good scrambler, and that kept him alive with the O line that we used to have. There was a running joke the he spent more time looking up at the lights on the celing of the dome than he did looking at the D. If Archie had been on a team with a good O line he would be in the HOF.

I agree with this for the most part. And before people start comparing stats, I'll mention that QBs of that era played in a much more conservative type of offense and did not have the defensive restrictions that were added just a few years later.

Archie was special. How he got up and kept going after all those hits is beyond me. That O-Line was beyond atrocious. 340 sacks in his 10 years with the Saints. 6 of those years were 14 game seasons.

The one season that he had a few weapons and some half-way decent protection, he was named NFC player of the year and made the pro-bowl.

Swimmer · 06-16-2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bornnraisedwhodat

I was born in 82 so the earliest Saints QB I remember is Bobby Hebert. I always hear old head who dats talk about Archie, how if he had a team worth a damn around him he could have been a HOFer. But school me on him. How good was he as far as pure QB essential traits. What were some of your favorite Archie Moments. This has a lot to do with fathers day some of the great father/son personalities in the league. The Mannings, hate them or love them or one of the classiest IMO and are good for the NFL and New Orleans.

It's hard to know if Archie would ever have been as good as his sons. He was with the Saints when we were a circus. As long as you were not Archie or expecting a winning season, it was pretty hysterical watching Archie when he dropped back to pass. His O-lines were worse than terrible. It was like watching a complete prison break out on the defense and Archie was the only prison guard. He scrambled for his life. Just watching him scramble was a testimony to his athleticism.

He had a cannon of an arm but his throwing motion was often nearly side armed. He was real hot and cold. But you could never tell whether it was the o-line and receivers or was it Archie. The man was flat-out tough. In the 4th quarter, we would watch the defensive players help picking-up Archie from the turf, saying nice to things to him. It was clear they respected and pitied him. But Archie was a leader and never ran away from a hit.

The real answer to your question is that we will never know. But my guess is that his sons were a bit better after learning from Archie.

bornnraisedwhodat · 06-16-2012, 11:16 PM

Thanks for the feedback. Im not looking for comparisons to how he would do vs today's QB's. It's impossible. Today's league is 180 degrees from where it was back then as far as the complexity of offenses and the rules of the game.

Im just talking about the overall skill set of the QB. Throwing arm, mechanics, toughness, clutchness, leadership, pocket presence, command of the huddle, accuracy, etc.

SaintBrad · 06-16-2012, 11:30 PM

this is how my old man worded it to me.

Think Drew Brees, with our 2007 defense, surrounded by 2005 offensive talent without Joe Horn, in a run first league with the next best QB in the league being Kyle Orton type caliber.

SaintsWillWin · 06-16-2012, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintsJunkie

I remember both well and Bobby Hebert was better, but we were so bad for so long Archie was the only qb we could even call good , and he wasn't that good,

both his sons are far better than him

I don't agree that Hebert was better than Manning; he certainly couldn't scramble as well as Archie!!
His sons are better ONLY because they were on better TEAMS!! Neither of his sons would have survived their first year in the NFL in those days if they had been the QB for the Saints.

On one of the NFL films shows, a sportswriter said that if Archie Manning had played for the Steelers instead of the Saints, he would have just as many rings as Terry Bradshaw, if not more.

It takes a special man/player to give 100% every game. knowing that it is almost a failing effort before the kick-off. But I have NEVER heard Archie say he regretted signing with the Saints or playing for them, and he said he literally cried when he was traded to the Houston Oilers, I believe by Bum Phillips.

I live in Shreveport, Louisiana, and during Archie's time with the Saints we almost NEVER got to see the Saints on TV because of the NW Louisiana love affair with the Cowpies!!

guidomerkinsrules · 06-16-2012, 11:48 PM

it's too bad fran tarkenton became such a kook, but he's probably what archie would have been if archie had a team around him
but after awhile it wasn't his qb skills that endeared fans, if you want to no why i loved him (and why i imagine many old timer do) go watch or re-watch Cool Hand Luke - the park where Luke is fighting george kennedy and i getting his **** beat out of him and he just won't stay down
that's the feeling/memory i have of archie

SaintsWillWin · 06-16-2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bornnraisedwhodat

Thanks for the feedback. Im not looking for comparisons to how he would do vs today's QB's. It's impossible. Today's league is 180 degrees from where it was back then as far as the complexity of offenses and the rules of the game.

Im just talking about the overall skill set of the QB. Throwing arm, mechanics, toughness, clutchness, leadership, pocket presence, command of the huddle, accuracy, etc.

If you could take Archie manning, in his prime, and put him on the current Saints team instead of Brees, there would be virtually no drop-off in offensive production. Manning would have zero problem running and NFL offense today if he were playing.