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Old 02-24-2013, 12:05 AM   #1
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Patrick Robinson & CBs of 2010 NFL Draft

Patrick Robinson is definitely a corner that plays very well at times then plays poorly at times and these up and downs spans can be from a good game to a bad game then to a good game and so on but even though he is one of the players that always makes me nervous during gameday, I still believe he's the most naturally gifted and talented of all our corners. I would say most of his lapses mentally and not complete physical domination like what happened to Johnny Patrick in that last quarter of the Saints Cowboys.

Yes, Dez Bryant did destroy Robinson early on but Patrick Robinson did show that he himself made physical adjustments as the game progressed (talking about the adaptation of his play to the aggressive style of Dez Bryant, and not an X's and O's adjustment like a Dcoordinator) in that one replay that I remember pretty clearly from that game where he baited Dez Bryant into that third down and short by backing up at the snap and "giving" Dez the "cushion" for the 1st down but then suddenly charging back up to swat the ball away.

(I'm not putting a lot of weight into PRob's performance this past season because of this square peg into round hole forcing that Spagnuolo did with his scheme even though I was a supporter of Spags during the season because of his character in never throwing players under the bus. I believe the defense we have is truly a lot better than what we saw under Spags but if anyone's curious as to what kind of a person I am when it comes to judging the Saints D = very opposed to retaining Harper at his salary, letting Malcolm Jenkins stay at FS without bringing in real competition as in a quality FA proven backup or starter or a rookie safety drafted high and not some fifth round rookie safety, need at CB is really not all that great, need to bring in real competition at OLBs in 3-4 through draft/FA or both draft and FA and not just assume Junior Galette and Martez Wilson will automatically become pro bowl all pro linebackers. I am a fan of Martez Wilson but its hard not to be with his decent highlights in limited showings.)

Anyways - took a look at the 2010 NFL Draft where we drafted PRob 32 overall, wanted to see if any of the cornerbacks drafted before or after really panned out and developed into an elite level.

2010 NFL Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looked down, scrolled through, and saw no CB that was drafted before or after PRob that had developed into an elite level aside from Joe Haden who was gone after the first 10 picks.

Kareem Jackson of the Texans was selected in the 20th and Devin Mccourty of the Patriots in the 27th and Kyle Wilson of the Jets selected in the 29th.

Neither have really panned out into first round quality that is expected from first round picks spent on cornerbacks. I'm not looking for Darelle Revis level as you can only really expect that from those taken in the top ten (Joe Haden is at that level, but he was picked in the top 10), but just looking to see how other cornerbacks have panned out that were picked before and after Patrick Robinson and it really seems that they're generally all at the same level. Decent overall, definitely better than an average cornerback in the league, but not elite, their inconsistencies whether mental or physical keep them from attaining that all elite level. But I feel these cornerbacks, including Patrick Robinson are all definitely progressing and improving as their respective teams are drafting defensive impact players in their front seven that are then putting pressure on the QB and making lives easier for the defensive players.

The Texans picked up JJWatt and mentored Kareem Jackson with Jonathan Joseph and he's improved especially this season.

Kareem Jackson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kareem Jackson Stats - Houston Texans - ESPN

While I can't make as strong of a case with the Jets even though they did pick up Muhammed Wilkerson because Kyle Wilson is a first round pick playing primarily a nickel corner behind Revis and Cromartie with the exception of this year alone, and I'm trying to look at things from a long distance progressive viewpoint. In retrospect, although this may be too early, it does feel that the CB class of 2010 aside from Joe Haden is not as strong as other recent classes of cornerback. Keep in mind - not as strong as compared to other classes. I'm not saying the class is weak, but just not as strong. I'm very optimistic about our secondary in general and not just Patrick Robinson.

We've seen improvement (and character) from Corey White to take that abuse all this season and still come out on gameday and prove himself despite everyone both fans and opposing team picking on him (but yes again, hard to truly judge a defensive player after this rough 2012 season). Elbert Mack has really showed up at times as a nickel corner to show that he does belong in the NFL and Jabari Greer is going to be 100% healthy and not be playing with some sports hernia or injury (and a full offseason for Mark Ingram to heal on the offensive side of the ball) and Johnny Patrick has been cut to show more accountability for the secondary.

I feel Patrick Robinson is in a similar situation as Kareem Jackson. We thrust Patrick Robinson into a starting position after the departure of Tracy Porter, he does have a mentor in Jabari Greer, and we, like the Texans and Jets, have been drafting impact defensive players like Cameron Jordan who have put less stress on the cornerbacks. Yes, Cameron Jordan is primarily a run stopper and not necessarily a strong pass rusher, but it is a bit of relief for our CBs to know that they don't have to 100% fully engage their man every play for fear of a RB heading to their edge and that the entire play is up to them to stop because our safeties aren't reliable.


Long first post. Curious as to anyone's thoughts are on this or just Patrick Robinson in general.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:41 AM   #2
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I'm sure all on the roster will be given a chance, but I also would sleep better at night with either proven FA or high draft pick for a CB, and I bet the coaching staff feels the same way.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:05 AM   #3
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It's on spags zone defense.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:24 AM   #4
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Devin McCourtney and Joe Haden are having some pretty good careers. Anyways its a make or break year for prob.
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:28 AM   #5
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Devin McCourtney and Joe Haden are having some pretty good careers. Anyways its a make or break year for prob.
Devin Mccourty has had consistency problems also and has been moved to FS. Haydens a beast

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Old 02-24-2013, 07:03 AM   #6
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I will not single out just PROB because the whole secondary lacks confidence/consistency.

I have seen too many bad angles and whiffs on tackles.

Explain a cornerback having position to make a tackle but scared of the contact and dives at the ballcarrier's ankles...and misses the entire ballcarrier. That means they lack heart and someone else on the defense has to come and make the tackle.

None of our cornerbacks play with confidence! They look scared/shook before the play even happens. Our safety play is just as bad.

So now this brings up back full circle to the D-Line not being able to generate a pass rush right!

* D-Line coach has yet to generate a pass rush so we fire another DCoordinator and bring in another DCoordinator that reminds us of Gregg Williams because of the blitzing style that he brings to the table. But this still doesn't explain why the D-Line coach is ineffective. It just covers up the fact this D-Line coach (Bill Johnson) has underachieved but he still keeps his job.

Sean Payton is loyal to his friends: D-Line coach (Bill Johnson) & LB coach (Joe Vitt). Both has underachieved at their position but they are still apart of the coaching staff. Neither coach has developed any of our defensive players.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:50 AM   #7
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Sean Payton is loyal to his friends: D-Line coach (Bill Johnson) & LB coach (Joe Vitt). Both has underachieved at their position but they are still apart of the coaching staff. Neither coach has developed any of our defensive players.
Just take Remi Ayodele. When he came to New Orleans he had just 5 tackles in 2 years during his time with the Cowboys and Ravens. When he left after the 2010 season he had started 29 games for the Saints. If you are ignoring the progress players like Ayodele or Galette or Jordan have made then yes - Johnson hasn't developed anybody.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neworleanssaints9 View Post
Patrick Robinson is definitely a corner that plays very well at times then plays poorly at times and these up and downs spans can be from a good game to a bad game then to a good game and so on but even though he is one of the players that always makes me nervous during gameday, I still believe he's the most naturally gifted and talented of all our corners. I would say most of his lapses mentally and not complete physical domination like what happened to Johnny Patrick in that last quarter of the Saints Cowboys.

Yes, Dez Bryant did destroy Robinson early on but Patrick Robinson did show that he himself made physical adjustments as the game progressed (talking about the adaptation of his play to the aggressive style of Dez Bryant, and not an X's and O's adjustment like a Dcoordinator) in that one replay that I remember pretty clearly from that game where he baited Dez Bryant into that third down and short by backing up at the snap and "giving" Dez the "cushion" for the 1st down but then suddenly charging back up to swat the ball away.

(I'm not putting a lot of weight into PRob's performance this past season because of this square peg into round hole forcing that Spagnuolo did with his scheme even though I was a supporter of Spags during the season because of his character in never throwing players under the bus. I believe the defense we have is truly a lot better than what we saw under Spags but if anyone's curious as to what kind of a person I am when it comes to judging the Saints D = very opposed to retaining Harper at his salary, letting Malcolm Jenkins stay at FS without bringing in real competition as in a quality FA proven backup or starter or a rookie safety drafted high and not some fifth round rookie safety, need at CB is really not all that great, need to bring in real competition at OLBs in 3-4 through draft/FA or both draft and FA and not just assume Junior Galette and Martez Wilson will automatically become pro bowl all pro linebackers. I am a fan of Martez Wilson but its hard not to be with his decent highlights in limited showings.)

Anyways - took a look at the 2010 NFL Draft where we drafted PRob 32 overall, wanted to see if any of the cornerbacks drafted before or after really panned out and developed into an elite level.

2010 NFL Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looked down, scrolled through, and saw no CB that was drafted before or after PRob that had developed into an elite level aside from Joe Haden who was gone after the first 10 picks.

Kareem Jackson of the Texans was selected in the 20th and Devin Mccourty of the Patriots in the 27th and Kyle Wilson of the Jets selected in the 29th.

Neither have really panned out into first round quality that is expected from first round picks spent on cornerbacks. I'm not looking for Darelle Revis level as you can only really expect that from those taken in the top ten (Joe Haden is at that level, but he was picked in the top 10), but just looking to see how other cornerbacks have panned out that were picked before and after Patrick Robinson and it really seems that they're generally all at the same level. Decent overall, definitely better than an average cornerback in the league, but not elite, their inconsistencies whether mental or physical keep them from attaining that all elite level. But I feel these cornerbacks, including Patrick Robinson are all definitely progressing and improving as their respective teams are drafting defensive impact players in their front seven that are then putting pressure on the QB and making lives easier for the defensive players.

The Texans picked up JJWatt and mentored Kareem Jackson with Jonathan Joseph and he's improved especially this season.

Kareem Jackson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kareem Jackson Stats - Houston Texans - ESPN

While I can't make as strong of a case with the Jets even though they did pick up Muhammed Wilkerson because Kyle Wilson is a first round pick playing primarily a nickel corner behind Revis and Cromartie with the exception of this year alone, and I'm trying to look at things from a long distance progressive viewpoint. In retrospect, although this may be too early, it does feel that the CB class of 2010 aside from Joe Haden is not as strong as other recent classes of cornerback. Keep in mind - not as strong as compared to other classes. I'm not saying the class is weak, but just not as strong. I'm very optimistic about our secondary in general and not just Patrick Robinson.

We've seen improvement (and character) from Corey White to take that abuse all this season and still come out on gameday and prove himself despite everyone both fans and opposing team picking on him (but yes again, hard to truly judge a defensive player after this rough 2012 season). Elbert Mack has really showed up at times as a nickel corner to show that he does belong in the NFL and Jabari Greer is going to be 100% healthy and not be playing with some sports hernia or injury (and a full offseason for Mark Ingram to heal on the offensive side of the ball) and Johnny Patrick has been cut to show more accountability for the secondary.

I feel Patrick Robinson is in a similar situation as Kareem Jackson. We thrust Patrick Robinson into a starting position after the departure of Tracy Porter, he does have a mentor in Jabari Greer, and we, like the Texans and Jets, have been drafting impact defensive players like Cameron Jordan who have put less stress on the cornerbacks. Yes, Cameron Jordan is primarily a run stopper and not necessarily a strong pass rusher, but it is a bit of relief for our CBs to know that they don't have to 100% fully engage their man every play for fear of a RB heading to their edge and that the entire play is up to them to stop because our safeties aren't reliable.


Long first post. Curious as to anyone's thoughts are on this or just Patrick Robinson in general.
When Dez Bryant decides to show-up and play a game, there's no CB who can cover him man-up. No one!
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:18 AM   #9
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Patrick Robinson was drafted as a man boundary corner. That's his skill set. He was misused by Spags.

I'm not sure he's going to suddenly turn into an elite corner under Ryan or anything necessarily, but the odds of him being a serviceable player for us are much greater now.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:00 AM   #10
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I dont know how many people listed to the podcast yesterday but we have 2 positions left to fill.

Assistant D line coach and Db's coach.

Which tells me Ryan himself will work with vitt and the lbs.

Johnson will work with an assistant of Ryans choosing

DB coach will b of Ryans choosing
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