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Old 02-22-2013, 09:12 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemms View Post
Show me 15 plays all season in which he looked like a legit starter. You only have about 850 snaps to choose from to find 15 and I bet you still can't do it.

Want to see some plays that proves he isn't a legit starter? Just watch any game at any point in the season in any given situation.

He is a great guy, great leader to have in the locker room, he is a great representative off the field for the Saints and he has been through so much with this team but so has Micky Loomis and nobody is asking him to suit up.

Will Smith isn't going to restructure for the league min, it just wont happen. He'd rather be cut and placed on the open market. Even if we sign the guy to a couple million a year it is money we could have put towards a good young player in free agency. To sign him after the season he had, at his age and only to move him out of position will go a very long way to prevent us from getting better.

I spent the last 5 months of the season disgusted at the play of several players on our defense and defense as a whole with Will Smith topping the list. If we start that sorry excuse for an NFL player over a good young player again this season I'll lose my ******* mind.

I hope Jason Cole is wrong and he strokes out like I just did reading this article.
You really don't think 2 million is worth it for Will Smith?


Consider this, he's a 6 million cap figure no matter what. By restructuring combined with a loss in money, we can actually lower his cap number for this year below what he'd cost if we just outright cut him. And he IS a serviceable rotation guy. He wasn't that bad under GW, and playing inside the tackle in some lineups as he will under Ryan (as he did under GW) will actually help him remain relevant.

We've got a bunch of young guys at DE as is, and if we add anymore it'll be rookies. Cutting Smith and signing a veteran will cost more than restructuring Smith and probably not yield a significantly ore useful player.

It's really does make sense
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:15 PM   #44
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really depends , if they can get him for 1mil a year, maybe, on an ideal defense he is just a backup i think.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:15 PM   #45
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WOW check this tweet out..

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@TonyPauline reported today #LSU coaches aren't giving DE Sam Montgomery a "ringing endorsement" to NFL teams. Not a good sign for him.
Hasn't Payton been looking at him?
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:17 PM   #46
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as usual, well said. i'm developing a man crush on you dan.
You get made fun of enough in the VG boards...lol.

That being said, if it's a team friendly deal, then keep him. No harm in that case. .
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:20 PM   #47
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:24 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCUDan View Post
God I'm just remembering... I think after the Atlanta game in 2010... when people were up in arms and tossing around blame about why we lost and I said "well Jonathon Vilma got owned that last drive, maybe we should put some of the blame on him." And it was like I had just publicly executed a puppy. Criticizing Vilma was absolute blasphemy.

But now, he suffers one injury and everyone thinks he's done??? "He's old" is what I keep hearing. He's 31!!!!!! Ray Lewis just retired at age 37 or 38. London Fletcher is still playing into his late 30s. Urlacher. The list goes on. This is not a RB we're talking about. LBs have long careers, just like every defensive player and really every player besides RBs.

In short, 31 is not old. Vilma is not done. Smith is not done. Why we go from "they're god" to "they're crap" in a span of 12 months is beyond me. It's crazy is what it is. And it makes for a very irritating conversation.




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Old 02-22-2013, 09:35 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba View Post
58 tackles last year as a DE. That's a career high for Smith. Yeah, I think he'll be able to find 15 plays, easy.
Do it and post the video or link of the video of each play and I'll shoot you $20 via paypal.


First, 58 tackles is not a career high. He had 60 in 2005, 66 in 2007 and 61 in 2008. This was the 4th highest total of his career. Not surprisingly, the other 3 seasons he had high tackle totals we also missed the playoffs because our defense stunk and he was on the field the whole game. The 58 tackles is very misleading since he had easily his highest assisted tackles of his career from falling on piles. He had 33 solo tackles which was the 3rd worst of his career behind only his rookie season and a shortened season in 2010 from being suspended.

He also played 1072 snaps this season. That means he had a solo tackle every 32.5 snaps. I'm willing to bet that is among the worst in the league for a starting defensive end.

As a pass rusher he was horrible. He had 6.5 sacks but didn't earn but maybe 1-2 of those. The rest was from tackling the QB running from Cam or Junior. He played 986 defensive snaps. That means he was getting a sack every few hundred snaps or about every 150 QB drop backs. That is beyond horrid.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:43 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCUDan View Post
God I'm just remembering... I think after the Atlanta game in 2010... when people were up in arms and tossing around blame about why we lost and I said "well Jonathon Vilma got owned that last drive, maybe we should put some of the blame on him." And it was like I had just publicly executed a puppy. Criticizing Vilma was absolute blasphemy.

But now, he suffers one injury and everyone thinks he's done??? "He's old" is what I keep hearing. He's 31!!!!!! Ray Lewis just retired at age 37 or 38. London Fletcher is still playing into his late 30s. Urlacher. The list goes on. This is not a RB we're talking about. LBs have long careers, just like every defensive player and really every player besides RBs.

In short, 31 is not old. Vilma is not done. Smith is not done. Why we go from "they're god" to "they're crap" in a span of 12 months is beyond me. It's crazy is what it is. And it makes for a very irritating conversation.
So you are saying Vilma looked just as athletic and was every bit of the player last season that he was in 2009? If not then why?

Has Vilma ever had a good year in a 34 or as an OLB?

Vilma struggled big time last season. He struggled with the Jets when they switched to a 34. He publicly stated that he isn't a good fit for a 34 when in New York. Now he is 5 years older, overcoming several injuries and all the sudden he is going to be a good player in the same situation in which he struggled? I love Vilma, bought a Vilma jersey just two weeks ago. He'll go down as one of my all time favorite Saints. We don't win a Super Bowl without him but it doesn't make him younger, faster, stronger, better, more physical or suddenly better suited for a 34 defense.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:47 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemms View Post
Do it and post the video or link of the video of each play and I'll shoot you $20 via paypal.
Yeah, coming right up.
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Originally Posted by bclemms View Post
First, 58 tackles is not a career high. He had 60 in 2005, 66 in 2007 and 61 in 2008. This was the 4th highest total of his career.
Just going off these stats from the mobile version of NFL.com
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:49 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSSpam View Post
You really don't think 2 million is worth it for Will Smith?


Consider this, he's a 6 million cap figure no matter what. By restructuring combined with a loss in money, we can actually lower his cap number for this year below what he'd cost if we just outright cut him. And he IS a serviceable rotation guy. He wasn't that bad under GW, and playing inside the tackle in some lineups as he will under Ryan (as he did under GW) will actually help him remain relevant.

We've got a bunch of young guys at DE as is, and if we add anymore it'll be rookies. Cutting Smith and signing a veteran will cost more than restructuring Smith and probably not yield a significantly ore useful player.

It's really does make sense
I don't want to cut Smith and add a veteran, I'd rather roll with young players. I'd rather a crappy rookie than a washed up vet. Find out what is out there and roll the dice on some young guys and possibly find a diamond in the rough.

I'll give you that, he is serviceable as a 43 end but move a serviceable vet out of position and he isn't even that serviceable anymore.

I realize he has played inside on multiple formations in the past. He has played DT in a 4 man front, he has played as a 34 end on some of GW's packages and he has played multiple gaps in a 3 man fronts from nickle and dime packages. Just because he has played there some in the past doesn't mean he is good. I don't think he has ever recorded a single hurry, much less a sack playing from the inside so he is a waste of space as a pass rusher from 34 end. Against the run he is extremely undersized as a 34 end and he got manhandled by OT's as a 43 end just this last season.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:53 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamba View Post
Yeah, coming right up.

Just going off these stats from the mobile version of NFL.com
No fault of yours but those stats are different than NFL.com non mobile site, ESPN and Yahoo.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:06 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by rail View Post
I like TCU Dan's posts.
Same thing I was thinking. Always enjoy reading what he has to say

Having said that, I was hoping Smith would get released. But really a restructured deal was the best scenario for both sides
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:24 PM   #55
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:31 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by St. Widge View Post
You do realize that he is restructuring right? You do realize that is the reason for this thread, right?
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Originally Posted by bclemms View Post
So you are saying Vilma looked just as athletic and was every bit of the player last season that he was in 2009? If not then why?

Has Vilma ever had a good year in a 34 or as an OLB?

Vilma struggled big time last season. He struggled with the Jets when they switched to a 34. He publicly stated that he isn't a good fit for a 34 when in New York. Now he is 5 years older, overcoming several injuries and all the sudden he is going to be a good player in the same situation in which he struggled? I love Vilma, bought a Vilma jersey just two weeks ago. He'll go down as one of my all time favorite Saints. We don't win a Super Bowl without him but it doesn't make him younger, faster, stronger, better, more physical or suddenly better suited for a 34 defense.
But you're not taking in everything into consideration when the Jets switched to the 3-4 he had Dewayne Robertson as his NT and he couldn't keep blockers off Vilma which is vital in the 3-4. In 2009 Gw ran the 3-4 between 35% and 40% of the snaps and Vilma had a career year.

Will Smith getting restructured doesn't mean he will make the team if five other guys are better than he will be cut, if not then he earned it and isn't that a major part of camp?
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