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Old 05-17-2007, 11:20 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMtnSaint View Post
I'm not a ref but I can clarify it for you. Actually I already did if you look at my last post. Eligible receivers are the ends and anybody lined up at least a yard behind the LOS. Ends are defined as the two outside players on the LOS.

Motion does not affect eligibility. I think this is where you're getting confused. One player can be in motion parallel to the line of scrimmage when the ball is snapped but he is still eligible. If a player moves closer to the line of scrimmage and stops, he must reset for one second before the ball is snapped.
That is what I basically told DanChrism in my post about 5 post up - he must did not want to believe me. As for as the ref - how about the fact that I coached football for almost 20 yrs.

I could confuse most everyone on here with shift and motion sets. Basically what you are doing is creating coverage confusion for the D by shifting from a regular (balanced) set to a strong right or strong left formation. You can also very easily shift into an un-balanced line with a flanker to the strong side.

Not trying to sound cocky, but I knows a whole lot about football offensive sets than most folks here on the SSF. I will be glad to help anyone with a better understanding about football X and O's.
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:32 AM   #47
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This is one of the best threads I have read recently. Thanks to everyone who contributed!

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Old 09-12-2008, 12:38 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by TCUDan View Post
I saw a discussion about this on another thread but figured I'd start my own to see if it helps everyone grasp what Payton was referring to in his press conference:


It has to do with basic receiver lettering. You have X, Y, Z, R, and H (it can vary depending on the team). In a pro set (2 receivers, tight end, two backs), the X is the split end and the Z is the flanker. This means that the X lines up on the line of scrimmage on the open side (opposite the tight end... get it, split end/tight end). He is not covering a receiver. The Z, or the flanker, lines up on the tight end side and has to be a yard off the line for the formation to be legal (otherwise the tight end is ineligible).

Once you go into a spread or single back formation, things change. The slot receiver becomes "R" (where R was the fullback, it's now the slot). You can also have Y (tight end in a pro set) become the slot. This helps with pass play calling as well. Some teams, mostly in collegiate and high school football, use route trees and route numbers for play calls. So you might hear a play such as "Spread right, Z zoom, 821 H-swing on two." Knowing what you know now, the play call should make a lot more sense. Spread right is the allignment, Z zoom is the motion, 821 are the pass routes in the order of "XYZ." So X runs an 8, Y runs a 2, and Z runs a 1. H-swing tells you what the H man runs (the runningback or often the "H" back in two tight end sets) out of the backfield.

Basically what I'm gathering from this is that Payton likes Devery at split end probably because having him ON the line gives him a great jump on deep routes. Colston is a good flanker because he can't be muscled around and has that extra cushion to get into his routes over the middle. Some coaches prefer the opposite, with a quick, speedy flanker that can be motioned around and a big, possession split end (my preference). Meachem and Copper and Patten will also learn the slot position, so just because they're backing up X or Z doesn't mean much at this point. Basically Meachem and Copper are competing for the #3 (slot receiver) position.
Very strong explanation. At the end of the day, I don't think we have a WR who is locked into either the X or Z position. Some WR's only play one or the other in their schemes. Most of our WR's seem interchangable.
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:41 AM   #49
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:08 AM   #50
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Nice thread... not quite sure how it got un-earthed as it appears to be about a year and a half old... but anyway...

I thought this was interesting in the rule section:

Quote:
A T-formation quarterback is not eligible to receive a forward pass during a play from scrimmage.
By "T-formation" I assume this means what we commonly call 'shotgun'. So if the QB is in shotgun and his arm is hit as he throws, there would be a penalty if he caught the ball, correct? However, if the ball itself is tipped by a defender, the QB would be free to catch it?

Important stuff, I know... You see this happen all the time.
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:20 AM   #51
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Old 09-12-2008, 02:18 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62 Defense View Post
That is what I basically told DanChrism in my post about 5 post up - he must did not want to believe me. As for as the ref - how about the fact that I coached football for almost 20 yrs.

I could confuse most everyone on here with shift and motion sets. Basically what you are doing is creating coverage confusion for the D by shifting from a regular (balanced) set to a strong right or strong left formation. You can also very easily shift into an un-balanced line with a flanker to the strong side.

Not trying to sound cocky, but I knows a whole lot about football offensive sets than most folks here on the SSF. I will be glad to help anyone with a better understanding about football X and O's.
I don't think that you are coming across cocky. TCU started a great thread and you contributed some good points as well. It's refreshing to talk x and os rather than the daily, "Is Bush a bust" or "Chad Johnson changed his name threads".

With much talk of late regarding the blocking mishap on the Brees INT, I think it would be great if someone initiated a thread regarding common blocking assignments. This would probably be a good topic for many. Just a suggestion if you wanted to start a thread.
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Old 09-12-2008, 02:48 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjackson57 View Post
TCU started a great thread and you contributed some good points as well. It's refreshing to talk x and os rather than the daily, "Is Bush a bust" or "Chad Johnson changed his name threads".
PLUS MANY!

Quote:
With much talk of late regarding the blocking mishap on the Brees INT, I think it would be great if someone initiated a thread regarding common blocking assignments. This would probably be a good topic for many. Just a suggestion if you wanted to start a thread.
Also agree. There was some good X/O education on one of those missed block threads. And I'd love to know more about blocking assignments, including (if we could) pros and cons of zone-blocking versus man assignment schemes.
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Old 09-12-2008, 03:54 AM   #54
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good post.
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Old 09-12-2008, 07:50 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadsRock View Post
Nice thread... not quite sure how it got un-earthed as it appears to be about a year and a half old... but anyway...

I thought this was interesting in the rule section:



By "T-formation" I assume this means what we commonly call 'shotgun'. So if the QB is in shotgun and his arm is hit as he throws, there would be a penalty if he caught the ball, correct? However, if the ball itself is tipped by a defender, the QB would be free to catch it?

Important stuff, I know... You see this happen all the time.

Actually, I would guess that "T-formation" would mean that the QB was under center. The whole scheme seems to be based on the old T-formation, which consisted of a QB plus two halfbacks on either side of the a fullback in the backfield. There was no tight end, but rather two ends. That was the normal college alignment. The pros back as far as I can remember--and that's a loooooooong time--used the pro set, which consists of the QB, two running backs, a flanker, a split end, and a tight end. We're pretty used to that one, but it seems that the vestige of the T-formation varies through in the rules even today as a kind of premise. Some teams arranged the backs in an "I." That also goes way back. I recall a tailback for Villanova, which used the I, named Cosmo Iacavazzi. Say that name a few times: one of my favorite football names ever.

I can barely remember the single wing formation, which was kind of a weird off-center spread with an unbalanced line. USC (or was it UCLA?) and Princeton used it last IIRC. That and the double wing--which I never recall seeing--were the ancestors of the shotgun and the spread formations we see today, with the QB receiving the snap well behind the LOS. Those are not T-formations in the ancient sense.
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Old 09-12-2008, 08:38 AM   #56
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Old 05-17-2014, 10:22 PM   #57
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deserved a serious bump

I saw Payton quoted that Ccoks is lining up at the X position. Finally decided to do a little research into the details of all the position. Google search had this 3rd link down. And it's a great explanation, and fun to read considering the year. Thanks TCU dan.
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Old 05-17-2014, 10:36 PM   #58
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Quote:
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I saw Payton quoted that Ccoks is lining up at the X position. Finally decided to do a little research into the details of all the position. Google search had this 3rd link down. And it's a great explanation, and fun to read considering the year. Thanks TCU dan.
In the interview he said they usually just give these (rookie minimal/tryout) guys 1 assignment to focus on - you gotta believe SP will put him as many places on the field as he can
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Old 05-17-2014, 10:47 PM   #59
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In the interview he said they usually just give these (rookie minimal/tryout) guys 1 assignment to focus on - you gotta believe SP will put him as many places on the field as he can
Yeah, just saw the actual press conference. That's what I get for not getting it straight from the source, instead of a beat writer only listening long enough to get a story to be the 1st to rush to the presses.
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Old 05-18-2014, 04:01 PM   #60
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Quote:
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In the interview he said they usually just give these (rookie minimal/tryout) guys 1 assignment to focus on - you gotta believe SP will put him as many places on the field as he can
True. But it is interesting that that first assignment is the X. I think that validates one side of a discussion that has been held in various threads - which is that some have questioned whether Cooks is a genuine deep threat because his deep route numbers at OSU were rather limited . . . and that his greatest value to us is in the slot and on designed plays to get him the ball in space.

I saw a film study of him before the draft that said basically to not focus too much on the limited deep ball numbers - most teams held a safety over the top of him at all costs; and that he was a great outside receiver.

Good to see that SP shares that view, at least out of the gate.
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