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Old 05-02-2012, 04:30 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldRush26 View Post
I don't know the answers to your questions. I'm just rebutting the "There's no evidence" rhetoric. Of course there is evidence or else there would be no reason to accuse him of anything. Whether it's strong or not is another story.
No, there's only evidence because the commissioner says there's evidence. So far no one but the commissioner has even seen all this so called evidence. My point is, if I'm the Commish, and I had all this damaging evidence, then i'm leading with my strongest hand once i'm even questioned about it's legitmacy.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:30 PM   #44
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Does anyone have a link to that statement by Vilma?
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:32 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by bclemms View Post
Ok, so lets say the intent was there to injure a player regardless if it was legal or not. No injury occured. The police couldn't charge with murder, hell, in this case they couldn't even charge with attempted murder because the actual attempt was never made. The best they could do is conspiracy to commit murder.

You have players that have stomped on players heads and gotten 4 and 6 game suspensions. The intent to injure was there, they attempted to injure them and they did so in a fashion that is completely against the rules.

I don't think Vilma was even fined between 09-11.

If you want to compare this to the police pressing charges then I'll play.

A guy kills his wife, police arrest him and jury convicts. He gets 25 years in prison.

The next day a guy talks about killing his wife in the guys locker room but never as much as raises his hand to her.
Police arrest him, jury convicts and he gets 100 years in prison.
Maybe I misspoke. Just because the alleged bounty wasn't collected doesn't mean that players didn't attempt to injure for the purposes of collecting. That's what I believe the NFL would argue. They are treating the statement and the intent as one and the same. You just can't say it.

The burden of proof in regards to proving that someone tried and failed to injure someone for a bounty would be extremely difficult to satisfy in a court of law, but the NFL isn't a court of law. What exact evidence do they have? I don't know. None of us know, but that's silly to suggest that no evidence exists just because we don't know what it is. This isn't going to be like the OJ trial where everything is out there for the world to see. What benefit would there be for the NFL to publicize evidence against Vilma?

I'm just preparing people for the reality that the NFL lawyers have already hypothesized every arguement that Vilma's representation will likely present and they are confident it will hold, otherwise these sactions would not have been handed down in the first place.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:33 PM   #46
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The bounty investigator decided to jump ship at the right time. He felt awful about what Goodell has done with his "evidence."
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:35 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Sumdude34 View Post
Difference being The police look at and present evidence about said crimes
And they share that evidence with the public too right?
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:37 PM   #48
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Here come the "Free Vilma" tshirts.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:38 PM   #49
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Nobody is saying there was not a money pool. The argument the Saints are all making is a matter of RHETORIC. Very important verbiage that is not accurately portraying the situation.

BIG DIFFERENCE:

Bounty vs. Player Pool

Bounty = Money to injure. This is the media's buzz word that is making the understanding of the situation worse. This is the basis of the NFL and Media's argument.

Player Pool = Money to make big defensive plays. INTENT TO INJURE IS NOT IN THIS EQUATION. This is the basis of all Saints' arguments.

Why can't the public and NFL understand this very important point??

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Old 05-02-2012, 04:39 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldRush26 View Post
What benefit would there be for the NFL to publicize evidence against Vilma?
That's easy to answer. It's to make appear that the players are responsible for all upcoming concussion related lawsuits. This has been stated many times over by many people. They need a scapegoat and Jonathan Vilma is there man. Only, he's not going along.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:39 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldRush26 View Post
I don't know the answers to your questions. I'm just rebutting the "There's no evidence" rhetoric. Of course there is evidence or else there would be no reason to accuse him of anything. Whether it's strong or not is another story.

How do you know this? Have you seen the evidence? Could you share with us what you know? Link?
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:41 PM   #52
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:44 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i WhoDat i View Post
Nobody is saying there was not a money pool. The argument the Saints are all making is a matter of RHETORIC. Very important verbiage that is not accurately portraying the situation.

BIG DIFFERENCE:

Bounty vs. Player Pool

Bounty = Money to injure. This is the media's buzz word that is making the understanding of the situation worse. This is the basis of the NFL and Media's argument.

Player Pool = Money to make big defensive plays. INTENT TO INJURE IS NOT IN THIS EQUATION. This is the basis of all Saints' arguments.

Why can't the public and NFL understand this very important point??

!WhoDat!
EXACTALLY! Isn't that how the NFL justify not punishing the Packers in 07 for the same thing? Because they said their was for performance and Saints for Bounty. Yet, Petterson was carted off and missed 2 games under a performance based incentive and how many were carted off and missed games under the Bounty? Both teams broke the SAME rule. Lying or being honest doesn't change it after the fact. One team is punished with the harshest punishments in league history, one team got away with nothing.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:45 PM   #54
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How do you know this? Have you seen the evidence? Could you share with us what you know? Link?
Well for one, Gregg Williams said that a pay-for-performance system was in place and that the coaching staff was complicit. That's a pretty big hunkin piece of evidence right there.

As for Bounty vs pay-for-performance, I'm really not a big advocate of trying to differentiate the two. If you're going to do one you're pretty likely to do the other. It's like a gateway effect.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:49 PM   #55
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Dude, if he hadn't read that state,ent (re-prepared by the NFL) he would have never worked for the league again.

See how easy it is to float BS with -zero- proof?



Quote:
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Well for one, Gregg Williams said that a pay-for-performance system was in place and that the coaching staff was complicit. That's a pretty big hunkin piece of evidence right there.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:50 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by CCL36 View Post
If he says he didn't do it they call him a lair because he praticipated in the "pay for performance" pools but if he says he did it they demonize him and say look "he admits to a pay for injury" program. Vilma can't answer anything without his words being twisted. Heck almost every opposing fan thinks our coaches admitted to a "pay for injury" program when that is absolutely false. Propaganda has unfairly shaped public perception and Vilma isn't going to play into the NFL's spin.
Exactly. You took the words right out of my mouth.
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