Saintsreport.com Forums
home Steve Gleasons Website
Saints Report News Saints Super Forum Everything Else Board Political Discussion Board Fantasy Football Board Tech Board SaintsReport Affiliate Merchandise Gameday Board Behind the Levee New Orleans Hornets Board Twitter Outdoor Boards Video Games Board Smack Board Music Board College Sports Board SR Live Chat Room Contribute to our site costs Become a subscribing SR member

Do you want to remove the ads? Support the site by becoming a subscribing member.


Go Back   New Orleans Saints - Saints Report - Message Boards > GENERAL > Saints Super Forum (Main Board)


reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2017, 04:53 PM   #1
More than 15K posts served!
 
ELLIASJWILLIAMS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 16,024
ELLIASJWILLIAMS has disabled reputation
Thread Starter
Why a trade down from 11 Makes Sense

I'm going to make this really simple.


Let's take a look at the talent available at the 11th pick from the last few drafts starting with 2010
2010- Anthony Davis, Brandan Graham, JPP, Earl Thomas
2011- JJ Watt, Nick Fairley, Robert Quinn, Ryan Kerrigan, Mike Pouncey
2012- Dontari Poe, Fletcher Cox, Bruce Irvin, Michael Brockers
2013- Sheldon Richardson, Star Lotulelei, Kenny Vaccaro
2014- Taylor Lewan, OBJ, Aaron Donald, Ryan Shazier, Zach Martin
2015- Trae Waynes, Danny Shelton, Andrus Peat, Devante Parker
2016- Vernon Hargreaves, Laremy Tunsil, Sheldon Rankins


Now lets take a look at some of the players projected to be there at 11 in 2017

2017 - Reuben Foster, Mitch Trubisky, Christian McCaffrey, Hassan Redick


Now I've constantly read that teams view players and drafts from a historic standpoint. They compare them to the players from previous draft. Put the options we have up against some of the options previously available around the 11th pick. How many of them would you take over what's going to be available to us at 11?

Try not to think of their careers now but just their rookie season the impact they had.


Now how does what's likely available to us at 11 stack up?


Not very well does it...you'd take several of those guys b4 the players we will have options from. The guys we have all have significant holes in their game. McCaffrey has to be on a pitch count and is undersized, Reuben has dislexia and can't stop making bad decisions, Hassan Reddick is being projected to offball LB after being an undersized passrusher, Deshaun Watson has the winner trait but not much else going for him, and Trubisky only has 1 year as a starter on his Resume.


This quite simply isn't the best year to be picking outside of the top 10 where a dominant talent or player that could have been a top 10 pick falls. This draft has depth but only a few stars in it especially at the top of the 1st round. Now granted you probably have more guys that are rated as worth 1st round picks but you have less guys with fewer holes in their game.

The value of where we are at is higher vs what's going to be available when we pick. Makes all the sense in the world to trade back and take a player with holes later because they all have them. I'd be trying to get a 1st in Next years draft with the 32nd pick (likely why we don't want to trade it) while trying to get an extra pick in the mid round with the 11th pick. That would be smart business IMHO. Allowing you to take advantage of the depth in this one, and possibly get a shot at a truly elite player from next years draft (which is rumored to be stacked) because you'll have two 1st rounders and an ability to move around.


Just FFT


Regards,
Ellias
__________________
How Sway?
ELLIASJWILLIAMS is online now Reply With Quote


10 out of 22 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 04:58 PM   #2
ALL-MADDEN TEAM
 
mountaineerdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,727
Blog Entries: 1
mountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to behold
mountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to beholdmountaineerdude is a splendid one to behold
It only makes sense if Derek Barnett or Taco Charlton are off the board ....
mountaineerdude is offline Reply With Quote


1 out of 13 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 04:59 PM   #3
SR is my life!
 
TruSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 11,798
TruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club Member
TruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club MemberTruSaint Prestigious Gold Club Member
Not gonna lie, i was going to make a thread like this.

This year's draft has the deepest 2nd and 3rd rounds ive ever seen from an evaluation standpoint. I dont see much of a talent from off from the end of the 1st round til the beginning of the 3rd.

This is why i keep thinking if we could drop down a couple spots and grab another pick that might he ideal, unless someone insane drops to us like solomon thomas
TruSaint is offline Reply With Quote


2 out of 9 members found this post helpful.
Do you want to remove the ads? Support the site by becoming a subscribing member.
Old 04-20-2017, 05:01 PM   #4
More than 15K posts served!
 
ELLIASJWILLIAMS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 16,024
ELLIASJWILLIAMS has disabled reputation
Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruSaint View Post
Not gonna lie, i was going to make a thread like this.

This year's draft has the deepest 2nd and 3rd rounds ive ever seen from an evaluation standpoint. I dont see much of a talent from off from the end of the 1st round til the beginning of the 3rd.

This is why i keep thinking if we could drop down a couple spots and grab another pick that might he ideal, unless someone insane drops to us like solomon thomas
Or Marshon Lattimore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountaineerdude View Post
It only makes sense if Derek Barnett or Taco Charlton are off the board ....
There was the report the Saints Prefer Taco to Barnett that I have to take into consideration, and also I've heard whispers that the Saints feel as though Taco might last late into the 1st. So those guys to me aren't in our range for 11 which is why I didn't add them. Barnett....maybeeeee...but the whole "we have our board stacked via prototype" comment from SP vs Barnett not having prototypical Size/Length/or athleticism gives me pause on him.

edit: Not to mention even if I were to add them to that list you mean to tell me you'd take Barnett/Taco over Aaron Donald, or JPP, or OBJ, or Robert Quinn?
__________________
How Sway?
ELLIASJWILLIAMS is online now Reply With Quote


1 out of 6 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 05:08 PM   #5
Krispy Kreme
 
Rdanderson91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: West Monroe,LA
Age: 26
Posts: 5,829
Rdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club Member
Rdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club MemberRdanderson91 Prestigious Gold Club Member
Quick question, I'm only halfway through reading the post..how is McCaffery undersized? He's 6' 200. Maybe he could add 5-10 pounds of muscle but I wouldn't call it undersized..
__________________
It's picked off! It's picked off! It's Tracy Porter again! He's runnin' free! He's gonna go all the way! Hand outstretched...and it's a Saint touchdown! Seventy yards on the return! Seventy yards on the return by Porter! He did it to Favre, and now he's done it to Manning!
Rdanderson91 is online now Reply With Quote


3 out of 8 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 05:09 PM   #6
Oldschool Saints Fan
 
AL_Bundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Age: 56
Posts: 1,533
AL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
AL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of FamerAL_Bundy is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELLIASJWILLIAMS View Post
Or Marshon Lattimore.
Isn't the knock on Lattimore that he can't stay healthy and available? Seems like I read that somewhere, don't know enough about him to say it's true, or it may have just been the opinion of the guy that wrote the article I read.

I really haven't kept up with CB's this year, been doing all my reading on edge rushers and linebackers.

Drafting CB's, TE's, and QB's seem almost like a crap shoot to me. So many don't ever live up to expectations in the NFL. Those are the three positions that scare me the most. It almost seems like half or more of the highly touted ones never pan out. The whole draft process both excites me, and makes me nervous as heck. We can't afford any more wasted picks.
__________________
"Drew Brees is a bad man!"
AL_Bundy is offline Reply With Quote


3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 05:11 PM   #7
All-Pro
 
Black&Gold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mandeville
Age: 43
Posts: 1,268
Black&Gold is a splendid one to beholdBlack&Gold is a splendid one to beholdBlack&Gold is a splendid one to behold
Black&Gold is a splendid one to beholdBlack&Gold is a splendid one to beholdBlack&Gold is a splendid one to beholdBlack&Gold is a splendid one to beholdBlack&Gold is a splendid one to beholdBlack&Gold is a splendid one to beholdBlack&Gold is a splendid one to beholdBlack&Gold is a splendid one to beholdBlack&Gold is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdanderson91 View Post
Quick question, I'm only halfway through reading the post..how is McCaffery undersized?
Was about to say the same thing. Is McCoy undersized? I don't hear anyone saying that about Dalvin Cook.
Black&Gold is offline Reply With Quote


3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 05:15 PM   #8
Pro-Bowler
 
SaintfromOZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Orleans
Age: 30
Posts: 849
SaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of Famer
SaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of FamerSaintfromOZ is a future SR.com Hall of Famer
You can't compare drafts though... I get what your point is, I just feel as though new year, new draft, new players.
I'm sure you could make the same argument for staying at 11. If there's someone at 11 that we love they'll take him.
SaintfromOZ is offline Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 05:21 PM   #9
Subscribing Member

 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 8,874
JvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger Club
JvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger ClubJvilleJoe 40K Burger Club

Awards Showcase
Predict the Score Winner 
Total Awards: 1

I am one who strongly feels that this deep draft is the perfect timing to trade down anytime we can to get more premium and other choices. I don't see much difference between #11 and maybe #20 and if we can pick up another 3rd round choice this year I am convinced we can get a quality player later in round one. In terms of #32, I feel exactly the same way if we can leverage that premium #1, with the 5 year option, for additional choices. If we can do that AND if we continue last years success with our selections, this team could be formidable for a number of years to come with great youth and talent. Now will Loomis do that! That is the 64,000 question!
JvilleJoe is online now Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 05:22 PM   #10
Not a part of your system
 
NOFALCONS10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 40
Posts: 11,994
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
NOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of FamerNOFALCONS10 is an Sr.com Hall of Famer
OJ Howard will be an all-pro and Melinfonwu is as Talented as Adams.

I won't rehash the same old McDowell arguments here but no to a trade down as long as all-pro ability is still on the board.
__________________
ANTI-CAPITALIST/ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN.
"Civil government is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor. For those who have some property against those who have none at all." Adam Smith
NOFALCONS10 is offline Reply With Quote


Old 04-20-2017, 05:29 PM   #11
Veteran Starter
 
Lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 295
Lazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura aboutLazarus has a spectacular aura about
I agree with the desire to trade down , but you made the point as to why its very unlikely to happen.

The draft is deep, why do i want to trade up? There might be one or two teams absolutely nuts for some one to trade up. and 30 teams wanting to trade back. It will come done to luck of the draw.

How does the board fall and who happens to be in the lucky lottery slot.
__________________
Arghf................Matey
Lazarus is offline Reply With Quote


2 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 05:36 PM   #12
Super Forum Fanatic
 
livefromDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Age: 38
Posts: 7,100
livefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club Member
livefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club MemberlivefromDC Prestigious Platinum Club Member
I like the idea of trading down but your argument suffers from hindsight bias. It's easy to look back at the draft and say these studs were available. Right now, of course the college kids look terrible in comparison. We don't know what they will become. We may look back at this draft and reflect how deep it was. And I really do think it's a deep draft. I think there's going to be a future all-pro available when we pick at #11. The question is, will we pull the trigger if that all-pro isn't at a need position. Alternatively, I'm all for trading down. This draft is DEEP across the board. I wish we had 10 picks...12 picks.
livefromDC is online now Reply With Quote


5 out of 5 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 05:40 PM   #13
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kenna Brah
Posts: 179
JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!JeauxDat is a BEAST!
Quote:
Originally Posted by livefromDC View Post
I like the idea of trading down but your argument suffers from hindsight bias. It's easy to look back at the draft and say these studs were available. Right now, of course the college kids look terrible in comparison. We don't know what they will become. We may look back at this draft and reflect how deep it was. And I really do think it's a deep draft. I think there's going to be a future all-pro available when we pick at #11.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
JeauxDat is offline Reply With Quote


2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 06:05 PM   #14
Doctorate in Rockin-it

 
superchuck500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mt. Pleasant, SC
Age: 44
Posts: 36,439
superchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Member
superchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Membersuperchuck500 Prestigious Platinum Club Member

Awards Showcase
Outstanding Community Service Award 
Total Awards: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdanderson91 View Post
Quick question, I'm only halfway through reading the post..how is McCaffery undersized? He's 6' 200. Maybe he could add 5-10 pounds of muscle but I wouldn't call it undersized.
He also had 200 more touches last year than anyone else - he's durable. I know Sean said pitch count but it's not entirely clear where that is coming from. It could be the tendency to use him all over the place and in ST.

I'm not against trading down but it has to be based on the board and the offer. Going in with the idea that you're gonna do it either way isn't a good idea.
superchuck500 is offline Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old 04-20-2017, 06:16 PM   #15
ALL-MADDEN TEAM
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Age: 34
Posts: 2,282
kennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to behold
kennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to beholdkennydfresh is a splendid one to behold
Dude mentioned Trade down and Taco Charlton in the same paragraph, you should have made a thread asking for red thumbs.
__________________
2000-2001 SR.com Rookie of the Year

\"Me I want whats coming to me?\"/ Whats that tony?/ The world chico and everything in it!\"

SCARFACE


-

GOD BLESS YOU ALL
kennydfresh is offline Reply With Quote


2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:37 PM.



Saintsreport.com - New Orleans Saints News, Info & Community! All marks, logos and images related to the Saints are the property of the New Orleans Saints, the NFL and NFL Properties. We are in no way affiliated with the New Orleans Saints or the NFL. All commentary and original artwork, 1997-2016 SaintsReport.com, owned and operated by Andrus Whitewing, DBA Saints Report,LLC. All rights reserved. Copying of original columns prohibited without a return link and credit given. Teasing articles is ok.



Some of the Photos and pictures used throughout the site are copyright Michael C. Hebert and are used with the permission of Michael C. Hebert and the New Orleans Saints.




Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0