Anti-Gay Marriage and the Black Church

[Optimus Prime]

article from the Washington Post
================================================== ==================

All of a sudden, they are bigots and haters — they who stood tall against discrimination, who marched and sat in, who knew better than most the pain of being told they were less than others.

They are black men, successful ministers, leaders of their community. But with Maryland poised to become the eighth state in the nation to legalize same-sex marriage, they hear people — politicians, activists, even members of their own congregations — telling them they are on the wrong side of history, and that’s not where they usually live.

Sometimes, the pastors say, the name-calling and the anger sting.....

“This is a cultural war, a cultural shift, and those who are in rebellion have decided to portray us as bigots and prejudiced,” says Thomas, pastor of Forestville New Redeemer Baptist Church, a trim, pale-brick building across from a storage facility on a dead-end road just inside the Beltway near Pennsylvania Avenue.

He knows that some gay activists are incredulous that black ministers could oppose a civil rights initiative. “ ‘How dare a black preacher take this position,’ they say, ‘because you’ve felt this pain,’ and I have,” he says. Over the decades, he has marched for voting and housing rights and fought for equal protection for blacks.

But Thomas and the 77 other Baptist ministers in the association do not see same-sex marriage as a civil rights matter. Rather, they say, it is a question of Scripture, of whether a country based on Judeo-Christian principles will honor what’s written in Romans or decide to make secular decisions about what’s right. In Maryland, as in California and New York, opinion polls have shown that although a majority of white voters support recognition of same-sex marriage, a majority of blacks oppose it, often on religious grounds..............

Black pastors take heat for not viewing same-sex marriage as civil rights matter - The Washington Post

[Cosmic201]

I think it's so sad that they sit there justifying their hatreds around the Bible when whites before the 60's did the same thing to keep black people down.

I'm a Christian. Follower of Christ. I follow the paths laid down by Jesus Christ. It is through his glory that the Kingdom of Heaven will come to pass. Jesus did not preach hatred. He did not preach judgement and damnation. His message was simple: love. Love yourself, love your family, love your neighbors, love your enemy, love the weak, love the poor, just simply love.

Yet so many 'Christians' reach back into the Old Testament to cherry pick rationales to justify their own beliefs while cheerfully ignoring others. If being Anti-gay was so important, why did Jesus not mention it once? If judging and punishing people of loose morals is acceptable, then why did Jesus treat a prostitute like an equal?

Like I said, I'm a Christian but I do not subscribe to any of the major Christian religions. I think most churches do a disservice to Christ and to humankind in general.


Just my opinion.

[El Caliente]

I don't think this is a religious thing, its just a human being thing. Ever since we got on this crazy planet, we have wanted to have somebody below us, and never have anyone above us. You can see that in the past with every new class of outsider that came to our shores being considered as a threat, and how they worked so that they weren't on the bottom of the ladder. These preachers don't want gay's marrying for the fear of them being on equal or higher footing, much like many view Latin immigrants as the ones that are stealing their jobs and might do better than they are doing.

Fear and bigotry don't need religion to hide behind.

[Flipx99]

I think it's sad that black people should be expected to abandon their religious beliefs simply because they were once denied rights.

It seems like just another way the man is trying to keep them down. It just happens that in this case the man is a gay man.

[El Caliente]

Originally Posted by Flipx99

I think it's sad that black people should be expected to abandon their religious beliefs simply because they were once denied rights.

It seems like just another way the man is trying to keep them down. It just happens that in this case the man is a gay man.

Then you better make sure you are stomach up.

[nolaswede]

I like the simple saying/slogan "If we can't get married, you can't get divorced".

[FLIPPY]

I'm all for gay marriage, they should be just as miserable as us heteros.....

[Crzycjunx76]

Originally Posted by Article

Rather, they say, it is a question of Scripture, of whether a country based on Judeo-Christian principles will honor what’s written in Romans or decide to make secular decisions about what’s right.

..

Originally Posted by U.S Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

[Danchrism]

This is a topic that's difficult for me to properly enunciate. These are guys who readily extol Obama and were/are passionate in their support for him, yet their aggressive speech against gay marriage puts them in perfect alignment with his political rivals. Churches with black leadership and high black congregations usually have a known, openly-gay member (if not several) that serves in a leadership capacity (ie, the overly-stereotypical gay choir director).

I already feel like I'm rambling, I'll stop here

[saintfan-n-alex]

Originally Posted by Danchrism

This is a topic that's difficult for me to properly enunciate. These are guys who readily extol Obama and were/are passionate in their support for him, yet their aggressive speech against gay marriage puts them in perfect alignment with his political rivals. Churches with black leadership and high black congregations usually have a known, openly-gay member (if not several) that serves in a leadership capacity (ie, the overly-stereotypical gay choir director).

I already feel like I'm rambling, I'll stop here

Obama is on record as being against gay marrige ......unless he changed his mind

Anti gay marrige doesnt mean you hate gay people


Being not gay nor married I could care less

[VVextreme]

Originally Posted by Cosmic201

I think it's so sad that they sit there justifying their hatreds around the Bible when whites before the 60's did the same thing to keep black people down.

I'm a Christian. Follower of Christ. I follow the paths laid down by Jesus Christ. It is through his glory that the Kingdom of Heaven will come to pass. Jesus did not preach hatred. He did not preach judgement and damnation. His message was simple: love. Love yourself, love your family, love your neighbors, love your enemy, love the weak, love the poor, just simply love.

Yet so many 'Christians' reach back into the Old Testament to cherry pick rationales to justify their own beliefs while cheerfully ignoring others. If being Anti-gay was so important, why did Jesus not mention it once? If judging and punishing people of loose morals is acceptable, then why did Jesus treat a prostitute like an equal?

Like I said, I'm a Christian but I do not subscribe to any of the major Christian religions. I think most churches do a disservice to Christ and to humankind in general.


Just my opinion.

I don't really know how I feel about morality and ethics at the moment. But conclusions regarding this issue aside, this is a pretty darn interesting twist and ironic at the same time. I guess no matter who you are or what you do, there's always going to be someone attacking you and trying to tear you down. But for the first time, the attackers are becoming the attacked. This is really funny! haha



But I'm forced to ask you about your terminology. You are using polarizing language and asserting that the black preachers are filled with hatred. So are you allowed to hate anything? I'm not saying hate people, but hate any of their actions? Where do you draw the line then? Clearly you're bypassing the Bible at this point and creating your own moral code, so I'm curious how you are defining it and where do you draw the line? What moral authority are you utilizing as a basis for drawing that line?

Clearly you think straight marriage is ok and homosexual marriage as well. Obviously you're not utilizing pro-creation as your defining standard either. How about marriage to multiple people? 1, 2, 5, 10, 1000000000? How many people can you be married too? Can you marry a toaster and list that as a dependent on your taxes? Can you marry a dog? (There are people that want too.) Can you marry a 10 year old? The desires of mankind are endless, so what criteria do you use to define what's acceptable and what's not? Somehow I doubt you'd be ok with every single example listed here, so might as well ask you how homosexuality is acceptable by your self-created standard, but other acts of love are unacceptable and should be excluded too. And if so, what sets you apart from these black pastors you allege are preaching hatred other than their beliefs are established by their God and you created/piece-mealed your own belief system?

And based upon prior experience with this board, I'm sure this post will get neg-repped by some just for daring to ask questions that challenges your status quo. But before you hit that thumb down button, ask yourself... why is asking questions a bad thing? I've made zero assertions of my beliefs, because things I used to think I knew... I'm no longer sure are true. So if questions offend you, then you might want to evaluate why that is.

[Cosmic201]

Marriage is simple.
Any adult of legal age and standing should be allowed to marry if they choose so of their own volition.
So no marrying toasters, no marrying animals, no children marriages. I think you should be allowed to marry multiple people, but I couldn't begin to tell you how to do so under contract and tax laws and I think it needs to monitored to make sure the people doing it are doing it of their own free will and not pressure from their church.


I think Christians should act like Christ instructed. Simple as that. Not as priests tell you what to do or what churches decide. I think the old testament is a great read and guide, but not strict law and shouldn't be used to justify your own beliefs. I believe the word of Christ is the most important parts of the bible, simple as that and Christ does not preach the judgmental damnation of any peoples.

I think just like most modern 'Christians' throw out untold laws and beliefs stated in the Old Testament that any trying to turn around to use it to deny the rights that should be innate rights for all Americans are hypocrites.

[Jimbo]

Guys, I consider myself not bigoted but I wanted to share something that happened, real-world scenario. How would you feel if you had a five or six year old girl that had been molested by ANOTHER FIVE YEAR OLD GIRL? Whose "parents" just happened to be two lesbians? This incident just happened at a local school, on numerous occasions before they found out. That's right, a kindergarten girl pulling undies down in the bathroom and going to town on other little girls. Homosexual couples are going to have to raise the bar if they want any respect from the establishment, just like racial minorities had to. They are going to have to be BETTER not worse than the norm to overcome the bias. Stuff like this just sets things back.

[gavinj]

Black culture is just a little different imo. There is still a strong feeling that homosexuality is something that's learned as opposed to being born with it. I think white people are more accepting if their kids turn out gay these days. I know I'm painting with broad strokes here. There are obviously exceptions.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Guys, I consider myself not bigoted but I wanted to share something that happened, real-world scenario. How would you feel if you had a five or six year old girl that had been molested by ANOTHER FIVE YEAR OLD GIRL? Whose "parents" just happened to be two lesbians? This incident just happened at a local school, on numerous occasions before they found out. That's right, a kindergarten girl pulling undies down in the bathroom and going to town on other little girls. Homosexual couples are going to have to raise the bar if they want any respect from the establishment, just like racial minorities had to. They are going to have to be BETTER not worse than the norm to overcome the bias. Stuff like this just sets things back.

There are cases of little boys fondling little girls too.

OMG! Heterosexual couples are going to have to raise the bar!!! Otherwise, they will no respeck.