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Old 02-26-2012, 08:10 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by VVextreme View Post
Clearly you think straight marriage is ok and homosexual marriage as well. Obviously you're not utilizing pro-creation as your defining standard either. How about marriage to multiple people? 1, 2, 5, 10, 1000000000? How many people can you be married too? Can you marry a toaster and list that as a dependent on your taxes? Can you marry a dog? (There are people that want too.) Can you marry a 10 year old?
Cosmic did a pretty good job breaking this all down, but I'll add my 2 cents to reiterate.

Marriage is a right granted to a pair of adult humans. Thus, children, inanimate objects, and animals are out. Like Cosmic, I have no moral issues regarding polygamous relationships, but that is a complex legal issue completely unrelated to marriage equality for homosexual couples.

The slippery slope possibilities that you mention above bear absolutely no connection to two men or two women in a committed relationship gaining the legal and economic benefits that marriage affords. It's an argument used only by the either intellectually dishonest or ignorant.

As it stands right now, states that outlaw gay marriage and the federal government discriminate against a certain group (same-sex couples) for reasons that do not stand up to Constitutional examination (and, "because the Bible says so," doesn't work).

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Originally Posted by VVextreme View Post
The desires of mankind are endless, so what criteria do you use to define what's acceptable and what's not? Somehow I doubt you'd be ok with every single example listed here, so might as well ask you how homosexuality is acceptable by your self-created standard, but other acts of love are unacceptable and should be excluded too. And if so, what sets you apart from these black pastors you allege are preaching hatred other than their beliefs are established by their God and you created/piece-mealed your own belief system?
As Cosmic and I have gone over, the "desires of mankind" that you list above bear absolutely no connection to same-sex marriage. The legal recognition of same-sex marriages will in no way open up the flood gates of man-on-toaster or man-on-goat marriages that you bring up.

Our country is built upon equality and liberty, not morality. Sure there is plenty of overlap, but for the most part morality, as you point out, is often subjective, while liberty and equality can be reduced to far more objective terms.

What is your ultimate point? Is it that because definitions of morality can be varied across the population, we should allow of discrimination?

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Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
Wow, really? We've had no issues of 5 year old boys touching five year old girls at this school. Little girls don't know about this stuff inherently. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is the parents don't close the door and use common sense discretion. To be blunt, the point is militant lesbians may not make the best parents. In the broader scheme of the original post, black ministers have concerns over this exact type of stuff. What can be done with the little girl who was the molester? Just leave her in school to do it again? Put her in foster care? Lots of issues here. To make the point clearer, little boys do not go to the bathroom, get undressed at gym and take showers with little girls. Of course there's always homosexual guys who are parents too who have equal opportunity to make poor choices about discretion. Inappropriate is inappropriate, be it gay, lesbian or hetero.
And Jimbo, what the hell is your point?

The story you bring up is a sad one, for both girls. I wouldn't go as far as you to make an immediate connection between what happened and the two mothers of the little girl. Bad parenting can happen with heterosexual couples, and the majority of sexual abusers come from heterosexual couples.

But again, what's your point? Is it that this is evidence that gay marriage should remain illegal? Should we not allow gay couples adopt, as a handful of states do?
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:53 AM   #30
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I don't know if this question has ever been posed but I figured this might be the best thread to do it in. What if the government removed all benefits that come with being married? What if there were no benefit to being married other than being with the person you love in committed relationship? Would there be such a fight from the "anti" side to prohibit same sex marriage? Would there be such a fight from the "pro" side to make same sex marriage legal? Would there even be a discussion on protecting marriage? Thoughts?
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:12 AM   #31
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Guys, I consider myself not bigoted but I wanted to share something that happened, real-world scenario. How would you feel if you had a five or six year old girl that had been molested by ANOTHER FIVE YEAR OLD GIRL? Whose "parents" just happened to be two lesbians? This incident just happened at a local school, on numerous occasions before they found out. That's right, a kindergarten girl pulling undies down in the bathroom and going to town on other little girls. Homosexual couples are going to have to raise the bar if they want any respect from the establishment, just like racial minorities had to. They are going to have to be BETTER not worse than the norm to overcome the bias. Stuff like this just sets things back.
How about a link to this story? I'd like to read the real account of what happened. Your version sounds somewhat fictional.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:26 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Saintamaniac View Post
I don't know if this question has ever been posed but I figured this might be the best thread to do it in. What if the government removed all benefits that come with being married? What if there were no benefit to being married other than being with the person you love in committed relationship? Would there be such a fight from the "anti" side to prohibit same sex marriage? Would there be such a fight from the "pro" side to make same sex marriage legal? Would there even be a discussion on protecting marriage? Thoughts?
It would absolutely be legal. I'd be performing ceremonies left and right.

What these bigots fail to understand is that freedom of religion goes for *everyone*. In my ministry, gays can be united in a wedlock every bit as legally 'holy' as if the Pope himself had done the job.

They're fighting a purely secular battle on purely religious grounds. At the end of the day, they can gussie it up all they want, they're just bigots who want to feel smug and superior that "those people" can't be legally wed even in *my* church.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:01 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Taurus View Post
It would absolutely be legal. I'd be performing ceremonies left and right.

What these bigots fail to understand is that freedom of religion goes for *everyone*. In my ministry, gays can be united in a wedlock every bit as legally 'holy' as if the Pope himself had done the job.

They're fighting a purely secular battle on purely religious grounds. At the end of the day, they can gussie it up all they want, they're just bigots who want to feel smug and superior that "those people" can't be legally wed even in *my* church.
Your ministry , now thats a good one. LOL! Reminds me of the time Fred Sanford started a church to get a tax deduction.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:38 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVextreme View Post

Clearly you think straight marriage is ok and homosexual marriage as well. Obviously you're not utilizing pro-creation as your defining standard either. How about marriage to multiple people? 1, 2, 5, 10, 1000000000? How many people can you be married too? Can you marry a toaster and list that as a dependent on your taxes? Can you marry a dog? (There are people that want too.) Can you marry a 10 year old? The desires of mankind are endless, so what criteria do you use to define what's acceptable and what's not?
ahh yes, the old "marrying dogs" argument
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:02 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintamaniac View Post
What if the government removed all benefits that come with being married? What if there were no benefit to being married other than being with the person you love in committed relationship? Would there be such a fight from the "anti" side to prohibit same sex marriage? Would there be such a fight from the "pro" side to make same sex marriage legal? Would there even be a discussion on protecting marriage? Thoughts?
Well what you're describing is where there is no marriage. What would be the point then?

I mean if all the laws/regulations were removed about marriage, then gay marriage wouldn't be illegal therefore it would be a moot point.

If the only thing about a marriage was that the government made gay marriage illegal and hetero marriage legal, there should be a fight because government sponsored discrimination should be opposed.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:31 PM   #36
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Does it REALLY matter if you can or cant? The world's already screwed up, so I don't see how it would benefit the world whichever way it went. Gay marriage does NOT increase unstability among things any worse than they are now.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:44 PM   #37
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ahh yes, the old "marrying dogs" argument
It's already happening in one of those looney liberal European countries. We must not allow this to happen here. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Nip this thing in the bud. Slippery slope indeed.

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Old 02-26-2012, 12:47 PM   #38
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It's already happening in one of those looney liberal European countries. We must not allow this to happen here. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Nip this thing in the bud. Slippery slope indeed.

So if you marry youre dog, can you technically marry a woman or a gay person too? Or are they now allowing beastiality as consensual as long as you are married?
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:50 PM   #39
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A 5 year old qualifies.
Your initial post alluded to two 5 year old girls having sex together in a bathroom and further implied this happened because of their lesbian parents. What if it were a 5 year old boy and 5 y/o girl from heterosexual families? Still the fault of the parents?

I'm sure we can agree there is something wrong with each scenario and can find fault with parenting in each case. That said I can find no correlation between the sexual orientation of the parents and the behavior of the kids.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:19 PM   #40
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Your ministry , now thats a good one. LOL! Reminds me of the time Fred Sanford started a church to get a tax deduction.
Yes. I'm an ordained, atheist minister. Freedom of religion, yo!
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:37 PM   #41
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Yeah cosmic, you sound christlike
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:43 PM   #42
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Your ministry , now thats a good one. LOL! Reminds me of the time Fred Sanford started a church to get a tax deduction.
Juts as legitimate as any other minister ever ordained.
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