Batman: The Dark Knight Rises **SPOILERS BEWARE**

[brockmeaux]

Honestly, I wanted to love it. There was a ton of spectacle, the cast was great, the music was awesome, and it was fairly well-paced for a 2 1/2 hour movie. But overall, if I had to give it one word, it would be "lazy." I get that it was a conclusion to the series, and I won't spoil anything, but I had some major problems with the laziness of the script, the burning desire they seemed to have to fit everything together, and especially with the couple of nods they threw in to get people to go "ooooh!" I'll go more in detail once the thread gets into spoiler-territory, but I left the theater pretty agitated by what I'd just seen.

Don't misunderstand me, either. This was no "Batman and Robin." It wasn't a BAD movie by any stretch of the imagination. Every component was there for it to be successful except for the script/screenplay. It showed a severe lack of respect for the spirit of some of the characters (they did, however, nail Selina Kyle) and the fans that have made them endure all these years. I expect that most casual fans and the general movie-going crowd are going to enjoy the heck out of the movie, and that's fantastic for them. It's already evidenced by the generally glowing reviews that are out. But I also expect that a lot of the fanboy population is going to have some of the same problems with it that I did.

[Grandadmiral]

Originally Posted by brockmeaux

Honestly, I wanted to love it. There was a ton of spectacle, the cast was great, the music was awesome, and it was fairly well-paced for a 2 1/2 hour movie. But overall, if I had to give it one word, it would be "lazy." I get that it was a conclusion to the series, and I won't spoil anything, but I had some major problems with the laziness of the script, the burning desire they seemed to have to fit everything together, and especially with the couple of nods they threw in to get people to go "ooooh!" I'll go more in detail once the thread gets into spoiler-territory, but I left the theater pretty agitated by what I'd just seen.

Don't misunderstand me, either. This was no "Batman and Robin." It wasn't a BAD movie by any stretch of the imagination. Every component was there for it to be successful except for the script/screenplay. It showed a severe lack of respect for the spirit of some of the characters (they did, however, nail Selina Kyle) and the fans that have made them endure all these years. I expect that most casual fans and the general movie-going crowd are going to enjoy the heck out of the movie, and that's fantastic for them. It's already evidenced by the generally glowing reviews that are out. But I also expect that a lot of the fanboy population is going to have some of the same problems with it that I did.

Were you expecting it to follow the comic more? And I personally think they nailed Bane and Thalia almost on point, except with the twist on origins and all. Had they gone that route, we might still be sitting in the theater.

[brockmeaux]

Originally Posted by Grandadmiral

Were you expecting it to follow the comic more? And I personally think they nailed Bane and Thalia almost on point, except with the twist on origins and all. Had they gone that route, we might still be sitting in the theater.

Not even necessarily that. I knew going in that it wasn't a direct adaptation of Knightfall or No Man's Land. And I also accept that this is Nolan's "Batverse," so things didn't necessarily follow the comic book storylines. I think for the first two hours, it was headed towards being a great movie. Then in the last thirty minutes, they shoehorned in exposition, monologues, flashbacks, kisses, and a bunch of other stuff that nearly undid everything they had worked for prior to it.












*******MILD SPOILERS...I'LL DO THE BEST I CAN NOT TO GET TOO SPECIFIC SO AS NOT TO RUIN IT***********
















And like I said, there was some laziness in the screenplay. If the goal of the big scheme was to destroy Gotham, why wait months to do so after everyone knows the plan? Bruce's back was also an issue...he's got an "exposed vertebrae," so a guy puts him in a sling, hits him in the back, and then he's good as new. Some continuity issues, like Bane takes Miranda, in the next cut she's back with Lucius Fox as Bruce shows up again, and then in the NEXT cut she's back with Bane. The timeline in general was kind of a mess, and WAY too much of the movie happens offscreen. We didn't need all the minutiae, but they could have dedicated some of the 2 1/2 hours of the movie to showing us how Commissioner Gordon and his crew were organizing and what kind of actions they were planning. Like two minutes could've taken care of the minor detail about how the good people of Gotham are planning to save their city. Instead, we just get a scene where they're all meeting in a kitchen somewhere. How'd they stay in touch and organize, how'd they move about the city unnoticed by Bane's thugs? Like I said, lazy. Also, the fact that Batman stops being Batman for 8 years at the beginning of the movie, not because it's necessary for the whole Dent coverup to work and ensure peace, but because he's heartbroken over Rachel Dawes just didn't fit. Also, could Batman have handled that NUCLEAR BOMB any more like a ragdoll? What DIDN'T he hit when he was towing it? And again, without spoiling it, the last scene with Bruce Wayne just doesn't seem like something Bruce Wayne would do. Not the Bruce Wayne that I know. It felt like they were going for closure just for closure's sake. I get that they had to close the Christopher Nolan series of Batman movies, but that was just SO outside of the realm of something the character of Batman would EVER do. That, and when Officer Blake's legal name was just dropped in there for no reason at the end other than an "ohhh" moment for the crowd had my eyes rolling out the back of my head.

[NOLove]

Originally Posted by Optimusaint

only Diablo players and people who already saw The Dark Knight Rises will get this meme...

Deckard Cain! Lol

[FootballLady]

Only it's something Bruce Wayne does do in one version of the comics. Not with the same result as the film, but he certainly did do it.

[brockmeaux]

Originally Posted by FootballLady

Only it's something Bruce Wayne does do in one version of the comics. Not with the same result as the film, but he certainly did do it.

************************MAJOR SPOILERS HERE, DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE, HIGHLIGHT TO READ***************************


















I'm sorry, by definition of the character, he will NOT stop being Batman as long as there's ANY kind of crime. It's not in the character's DNA. He does what he does to protect the innocent. Not for revenge, or to stop the big bad guys and let the cops handle muggers. He does it to prevent what happened to him from happening to ANYBODY else ever again. Maybe if he had to give up the cowl to protect people, or if he died, or in some alternate universe, or was time-jumping to get back to his present time TO BE BATMAN AGAIN, then alright. But Bruce Wayne would, under no circumstances, retire to move to Paris with Catwoman and hand the mantle over to an untrained ex-cop. They even could've won me over with him training Blake, leaving the people of Gotham in good hands. He would have then earned his retirement and ride off into the sunset. That would have, in my opinion, been a much better ending, and would have served the same purpose of closing the book on the Christopher Nolan/Christian Bale series of movies. But that would've gone contrary to the big "twists" in the last couple of minutes that he faked his death and that Blake's real name is Robin and fulfilling Alfred's fantasy of seeing Wayne at a coffee shop and knowing that he'd made it and was happy.

[Sun Wukong]

Originally Posted by brockmeaux

************************MAJOR SPOILERS HERE, DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE, HIGHLIGHT TO READ***************************


















I'm sorry, by definition of the character, he will NOT stop being Batman as long as there's ANY kind of crime. It's not in the character's DNA. He does what he does to protect the innocent. Not for revenge, or to stop the big bad guys and let the cops handle muggers. He does it to prevent what happened to him from happening to ANYBODY else ever again. Maybe if he had to give up the cowl to protect people, or if he died, or in some alternate universe, or was time-jumping to get back to his present time TO BE BATMAN AGAIN, then alright. But Bruce Wayne would, under no circumstances, retire to move to Paris with Catwoman and hand the mantle over to an untrained ex-cop. They even could've won me over with him training Blake, leaving the people of Gotham in good hands. He would have then earned his retirement and ride off into the sunset. That would have, in my opinion, been a much better ending, and would have served the same purpose of closing the book on the Christopher Nolan/Christian Bale series of movies. But that would've gone contrary to the big "twists" in the last couple of minutes that he faked his death and that Blake's real name is Robin and fulfilling Alfred's fantasy of seeing Wayne at a coffee shop and knowing that he'd made it and was happy.

*SPOILERISHNESS BELOW*



Except in the comics he's done it several times. Granted, he always returns, but he's given up the cowl on many occasions.

In fact, he does it in the No Man's Land story arc, which the movie is partially inspired by. One of the big threads in the early part of that story is him trying to re-establish his credibility in Gotham after he bailed on the place in its darkest hour.

And that's far from a lousy Batman story. It's one of the best in the last 15 years in terms of scope and character.

[OhioSaintsFan]

Originally Posted by brockmeaux

************************MAJOR SPOILERS HERE, DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE, HIGHLIGHT TO READ***************************
[/COLOR]

Excellent. Thank you for saving me twenty bucks.

[brockmeaux]

Originally Posted by Sun Wukong

*SPOILERISHNESS BELOW*



Except in the comics he's done it several times. Granted, he always returns, but he's given up the cowl on many occasions.

In fact, he does it in the No Man's Land story arc, which the movie is partially inspired by. One of the big threads in the early part of that story is him trying to re-establish his credibility in Gotham after he bailed on the place in its darkest hour.

And that's far from a lousy Batman story. It's one of the best in the last 15 years in terms of scope and character.

Definitely true. But my problem with that is that this isn't Detective Comics #652 or whatever, where you know, eventually he'll be back. If I knew we'd have another movie exploring Blake's growing pains after he took up the cowl, or the possibility of Bale's Batman stepping back into the role at some point, then the ending would have been fine. Similar to when Steve Rogers died and they made Bucky into Captain America. It was a great, interesting storyline and Ed Brubacher got some great stories out of having Bucky become Captain America. But since DC invalidated death with Superman (there's a great video on Youtube that details that whole storyline and why it ruined comics for a decade and death in comics forever), you knew Steve Rogers would be back. I thought it was really interesting to see Dick Grayson sort of "accept his fate" and take up the cowl after Bruce died in the comics, and to see him take on the mentor role with Damien Wayne. The finality of THIS, however, being the absolute final chapter in this story, where we'll never revisit this world and this Batman, just didn't ring true to my sensibilities. Maybe it was just me, and I fully expect to be in the overwhelming minority on this, but I felt like it was on it's way towards being really really good and took a hard right on "it worked in Inception" Avenue. I feel like less was more in this series of movies. It was greatly aided by Heath Ledger's Joker, but look at the scale of the movies: in Begins and Rises, the entire population of Gotham is at stake. In TDK, it's in the end a few hundred citizens on boats, but by not making TOO huge of a threat, it allowed the story to be more personal. I don't know. I'm sort of swimming after watching it this afternoon. I may die down a little bit in my intense dislike for some pieces of it. And like I said, on the whole it was good. It just left me disappointed.

[cdogg]

I loved it and thought it was the best Batman movie yet when I left the theater. I saw no laziness.

[simeon58]

Agreed. I was moved by it. It was empowering to me for a reason I haven't quite figured out yet. I felt inspired when I walked out. That is so rare in movies today. Rare in the arts at all for that matter. I need to see it again.

[FootballLady]

Originally Posted by brockmeaux

Definitely true. But my problem with that is that this isn't Detective Comics #652 or whatever, where you know, eventually he'll be back. If I knew we'd have another movie exploring Blake's growing pains after he took up the cowl, or the possibility of Bale's Batman stepping back into the role at some point, then the ending would have been fine. Similar to when Steve Rogers died and they made Bucky into Captain America. It was a great, interesting storyline and Ed Brubacher got some great stories out of having Bucky become Captain America. But since DC invalidated death with Superman (there's a great video on Youtube that details that whole storyline and why it ruined comics for a decade and death in comics forever), you knew Steve Rogers would be back. I thought it was really interesting to see Dick Grayson sort of "accept his fate" and take up the cowl after Bruce died in the comics, and to see him take on the mentor role with Damien Wayne. The finality of THIS, however, being the absolute final chapter in this story, where we'll never revisit this world and this Batman, just didn't ring true to my sensibilities. Maybe it was just me, and I fully expect to be in the overwhelming minority on this, but I felt like it was on it's way towards being really really good and took a hard right on "it worked in Inception" Avenue. I feel like less was more in this series of movies. It was greatly aided by Heath Ledger's Joker, but look at the scale of the movies: in Begins and Rises, the entire population of Gotham is at stake. In TDK, it's in the end a few hundred citizens on boats, but by not making TOO huge of a threat, it allowed the story to be more personal. I don't know. I'm sort of swimming after watching it this afternoon. I may die down a little bit in my intense dislike for some pieces of it. And like I said, on the whole it was good. It just left me disappointed.

Nolan sets us up for it in TDK. Re-watch the scene in the restaurant with Harvey, Rachel, Bruce, and Natasha.

[MLU]

There were parts of it that I cannot quite put my finger on that seem like Nolan was just trying to bridge gaps in the story to get to this grand ending he had planned, but overall the movie was very good. Wayne going from broken back with exposed vertebrae to fully functional Batman in a matter of weeks with nothing more than a rope and basic calisthenics was definitely deserving of eye-rolls. There were some good moments that I gave up on before being surprised and then some that I didn't see coming and was pleasantly surprised. No money wasted at all in viewing this film and in fact, I will probably see it again.

Were it not for The Avengers, DKR would easily be the best film of the summer thus far...

[FootballLady]

Originally Posted by MLU

There were parts of it that I cannot quite put my finger on that seem like Nolan was just trying to bridge gaps in the story to get to this grand ending he had planned, but overall the movie was very good. Wayne going from broken back with exposed vertebrae to fully functional Batman in a matter of weeks with nothing more than a rope and basic calisthenics was definitely deserving of eye-rolls. There were some good moments that I gave up on before being surprised and then some that I didn't see coming and was pleasantly surprised. No money wasted at all in viewing this film and in fact, I will probably see it again.

Were it not for The Avengers, DKR would easily be the best film of the summer thus far...

I don't know if this is what you meant by weeks, but it was nearly 5 months that he was in that prison.

[where yat brah]

I found it to be vastly superior to the Avengers.