The draw was rigged, apparantly. Look at this thread from a Liverpool forum posted 1hr and a half before the draw began. Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: Possible leak of draw
Rumour going around draw has been leaked..... this is no doubt rubbish but if Rumour is true it's LFC - arsenal and Chelsea - fenerbache and manure v roma
No bookies will take bets on the draw either.......
Let the draw commence. Comeeee on!
I don't know of a site that explains all the interplay, but I just kept looking up the various cups and leagues on wiki.
Here's what I understand about it:
Each nation has their own leagues. There are usually different levels or divisions- with a top level league and then lower leauges. England for instance has the Premier League- which is the top 20 teams and they play each other once (home and away) for a total of 38 games. Three points to win, one point to draw - and the league champion is the team with the most points at the end; no playoffs. Then there are the "under" leagues or divisions. (In England the next league down is the CocaCola Championship not to be confused with the UEFA Champions League - which is what people refer to when they say "Champions League" as explained below). But in all there are more than 400 football clubs in the English Football Association (FA), throughout the various leagues and divisions. Unlike in the U.S., a club can win and play up to a higher league, and likewise, a nonperforming team can be "relegated" to a lower league. That's pretty cool and happens every year. I think the bottom 3 teams in the Premier League are relegated each year. Also, within the clubs in English football, there are tournaments each year for different cups that each have their own history. One is the "league cup" (Carling Cup) and another is the FA Cup. These are tournament style competitions that intersperse with the club's regular league schedule (a match doesn't count for both though- so for instance, Man U. might play Tottenham in Round 4 of the FA Cup tournament and then play the same team again the next week in its Premier League schedule). One cool thing about the cup tourneys is that a lower rated club can put together some wins and theoretically could end up in the Cup final, with all the prestige and money that comes with it. (Sort of like George Mason going to the Final Four).
It is my understanding that most of the countries are set up this way. There's the Bundesliga in Germany but also lower division leagues, La Liga in Spain, and in Italy there's Serie A (top leauge, but also Serie B is the next league down). So that's how it goes.
Then there's the inter-league play. The UEFA is the Union of European Football Associations, which has tournament style play every year to award cups/championships to the winners of its two major tournaments that are drawn from qualifiers across the member leagues (which include the leagues from the nations of Europe).
The Champions League is the top UEFA class. It is made up of the top teams from the leagues in Europe, but the leagues have different rankings, which correspond to how many entries they get into the Champions League. Sometimes there are "play-in" style matches to set the field- and it gets relatively complicated. But in general, it allows for the top teams in various leagues to compete against each other for what is basically crowned as the champion of Europe. But again, these fixtures are apart from the club's regular league schedule and schedule with other cup tournaments going on. For instance, as of this Saturday, Chelsea would have played the Carling Cup Final versus Tottenham, a Premiere League match versus West Ham, a Champion's League match versus Olympiacos and an FA Cup match versus Barnsley all within a 14 or 15 day stretch (I think). So conditioning and depth of the squad is a big factor during these runs (for the top clubs).
The UEFA also holds the UEFA Cup tournament, which is sort of a next class down from the Champions League, but a tournament for qualifying clubs across the member leagues of Europe. Champions League clubs don't participate, and the various leagues have methods to set their entries. But for instance, the 6th place Premier League club will likely play due to the top 4 clubs being in the Champions League. The UEFA tournaments also run throughout the season and result in a final match, crowning the victor.
That's my understanding of it from a basic viewpoint. Someone else might have better info, or a website. FoxSoccer.com is pretty good.
That's a pretty good assessment.
The MLS is trying to get some of this started with other nations. We just played Japan and some other Pacific nations in one and I know that they have a Cup where four MLS teams play four Mexican league teams. Its nowhere even in the same stratosphere as the UEFA Cups but its a good start. The bad thing is that they always seem to do it during the MLS offseason so our teams **** it up due to bad conditioning and preseason-esque teamwork.
I really wish we could get a team or two in the Champions League. I know they would have little chance of winning but I think they would put up more of a good fight than analysts will admit. Last year, the then last place Galaxy (without Beckham still) only lost 1-0 to Chelsea and it was actually a well played game between the two.
__________________
Whelp...the Saints won the Super Bowl, the bad news is that I now owe God 3 days of church a week for 5 years, 1,000 hours of community service, 20% of my gross income for 10 years, my first born son, a 2011 2nd round draft pick, and my pet goldfish as a sacrificial offering the next lunar eclipse.
Yep, and that's why it will always be a 'wish' thing. It would be cool if they could take one team (the champion) from every league but that would take away from the Champions League so they'd never do that. It would also fall in with a lot of leagues offseason, ruining any chance at a true measuring stick.
Ah well, in a perfect world......
__________________
Whelp...the Saints won the Super Bowl, the bad news is that I now owe God 3 days of church a week for 5 years, 1,000 hours of community service, 20% of my gross income for 10 years, my first born son, a 2011 2nd round draft pick, and my pet goldfish as a sacrificial offering the next lunar eclipse.
This year's FA Cup is pretty unusual in that none of the 'big four' teams (Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U) have made it to the semi-finals. Barnsley - a small-town Yorkshire team almost no-one on SR will have even heard of until recently, stole all the headlines knocking out Liverpool and Chelsea in successive matches. They are joined in the semis by Cardiff, Portsmouth, and West Bromwich Albion.
Portsmouth are the only remaining team from the top division. This shows a couple of things.
First, those big four teams all have Champions League semifinals, the Premiership title, and qualification for next years Champions League (through a top 4 finish in this years Premiership) to think about. The prestige, and particularly the financial consequences, are far, far greater for these tounaments, so the FA Cup gets a little less focus/intensity.
Second, on a one-of game, there's less difference in quality between the the top flight and the lower divisions, especially when the top flight teams concentrate more attention to other competitions, while the lower league teams see it as the highlight of their season, and will, to coin a phrase, treat it like a Cup Final. Barnsley's displays against Chelsea (in particular) and Liverpool were magnificent - neither could be called fluke wins. Though they had a little luck, they simply worked far harder than their opponents.
It would be interesting to get some MLS teams involved in the FA Cup - it would present similar 'giant-killing' opportunities.
Long term, it's only a question of time before there's a World-wide equivalent of the Champions league - initially featuring the cream of Europe and South America, but eventually truly global. It's interesting to see that UEFA has started to slim down the Champions League (the second group stage being replaced by a straight knockout format). I think that's to add scarcity value to the games.
There's no way a true Champions League should feature teams finishing 3rd or 4th in domestic competitions, but a true world club Championship could be viable with one or two teams from each of the major nations, plus a qualifier tournament or preliminary round for the second tier nations.
__________________
"People should be encouraged to look to their own self interest, but avoid inflicting themselves on other people - especially don't inflict yourself on a schmuck. The guy has already made his choice. Cut the schmuck some slack." Frank Zappa
Barnsley has been amazing. I've actually heard them being mentioned in Louisiana. Crazy.
I agree the FA Cup will stay the way it is for a very LONG time. I would believe UEFA will crush any dreams of starting a World Cup of club teams in the same way people imagine oil companies squash more efficient fuels. They have the supreme product (other than the WC but that's every four years) of sports and I doubt they let some new thing surpass it. I'll predict we'll have a World Government before we have a World Cup of club teams.
But it sure would be cool.
__________________
Whelp...the Saints won the Super Bowl, the bad news is that I now owe God 3 days of church a week for 5 years, 1,000 hours of community service, 20% of my gross income for 10 years, my first born son, a 2011 2nd round draft pick, and my pet goldfish as a sacrificial offering the next lunar eclipse.
Just to clarify - I wasn't proposing including overseas teams in the FA Cup - merely stating that it would be interesting, particularly for MLS teams - as the format offers greater opportunities for an upset.
There is already a fairly low key world club championship - AFAIK a one-of game between the South American and European champions.
UEFA would certainly have strong objections to a greatly expanded world club tournament - for exactly the same reasons the top national leagues were opposed to the expansion of the European Cup into the Champions League format we have today: it greatly reduces their own income, prestige, and influence. However, the big clubs on both continents are likely to favour it, as their wealth, prestige, and influence would increase. And when they decide that it's a good idea, it will happen whatever UEFA think.
Exactly the same thing happened with the formation of the Premier League - the top clubs wanted more money so they effectively split. The FA had no choice but to accept, as almost all the TV money, and all the international squad, were gone. In a dispute the Premier league would refuse to release their players and the England team, and the remaining FA revenue would be gone. That laid the foundations for the serious problems the lower league teams have been struggling with ever since. The money is now concentrated in a handful of clubs at the top, and the rest can whistle. The results are visible at a number of clubs (off the top of my head Leeds and Luton are good examples).
Stories periodically surface about a European super league: the last version I recall would have involved Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Rangers and/or Celtic from the UK - I'm not sure about Chelsea, but I think it preceded their recent expansion. Take the top two or three clubs from each of the top European nations, and run that as a ~20 team league: what would those TV rights be worth? Who would have the supreme product?
What stopped it thus far, I suspect, was that the national bodies could effectively end the international careers of players at breakaway clubs. However, it's entirely possible that at some point this won't be enough of a threat. Having seen the way England have performed recently, I don't think it would be effective today - IMO there's so much money at stake in the club game that national loyalty is already losing out.
Now, take the European Superleague, throw out the dross (you know, the lesser lights like Liverpool, Celtic, PSV, Bayern, Juventus) and replace them with the top South American teams. Now what sells, and who has the clout? At that stage, they could threaten to kill off the World Cup. And before you say "That's ridiculous, what about the history, the tradition?" I would remind you that Liverpool is owned by Americans, and may soon be in Dubai hands; Chelsea is owned by a Russian billionaire; Man Utd is owned by the Glazers; etc. etc. It's all about the money.
__________________
"People should be encouraged to look to their own self interest, but avoid inflicting themselves on other people - especially don't inflict yourself on a schmuck. The guy has already made his choice. Cut the schmuck some slack." Frank Zappa
It would definitely be cool for a club cup to be developed that included North American (or also South Am.) clubs. But it just couldn't be FA (the longstanding English Football Association), or doubtfully UEFA. It could be something that UEFA was involved with, perhaps, but it would have to involve other organizations.
It would be cool though.
And I agree Andy, it's a bit short sided to see European football as truly local. I don't think the World Cup would suffer from a global club championship - the "national team" component gives it a completely different dynamic.
The only thing I could see being a problem would be fitting another large tournament into the club schedule. It would have to be every four years or so- something like that.
Just to clarify - I wasn't proposing including overseas teams in the FA Cup - merely stating that it would be interesting, particularly for MLS teams - as the format offers greater opportunities for an upset.
There is already a fairly low key world club championship - AFAIK a one-of game between the South American and European champions.
They have a bit more of that now with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_Club_World_Cup. With more money being poured into it, it should carry more prestige, but with payouts along the lines of 5 million wont attract much.
Cristiano Ronaldo and Park Ji Sung ran the show for United tonight. They were shaky at times but Ronaldo was sheer class as usual. 36 goals in all competitions so far.
Looking highly like a Man Utd - Barca semi final which should be a cracker.
__________________
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely"
Linear Mode
