Police knock on wrong door early AM; shoot & kill resident who came to door armed...

ndcc · 07-17-2012, 01:47 PM

Tragic story. According to witnesses, Sheriff deputies DID NOT announce themselves as law enforcement.

http://www.wesh.com/news/central-flo...?absolute=true

[mod edit - self-starting video replaced with link above]

Rickboy · 07-17-2012, 02:08 PM

Of course the Sheriff deputies are the only witnesses so who knows if he actually pointed a gun at them.

IntenseSaint · 07-17-2012, 02:08 PM

The police officer toward the end of the story say that this just shows if you point a gun at a police officer you will get shot. But they never identified themselves as the police. Amazing.

xpuma20x · 07-17-2012, 03:06 PM

Just out of curiosity, how would neighbors in the early AM know if the police did or did not announce themselves as officers of the law? In fact, what kind of neighborhood would have "witnesses" of the whole event if it was so early in the morning that the house owner felt it was out of place and he needed to arm himself. I'm not sure about you guys, but I don't randomly stand within conversation distance of my neighbors front door in the early AM. I'm not saying what they did was right, but the story doesn't seem accurate based on the video alone.

Zack Lee · 07-17-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntenseSaint

The police officer toward the end of the story say that this just shows if you point a gun at a police officer you will get shot. But they never identified themselves as the police. Amazing.

exactly, and that was probably the guy appointed to interviews for PR. The guy who is supposed to know how to keep the counties arse out of a legal sling by not saying stupid spit. Brilliantly handled Lake County.

Cosmic201 · 07-17-2012, 03:18 PM

I want to know if people routinely open their door in the middle of the night without a "whose there?" first.

I understand the police didn't yell "Police" when knocking, but did the homeowner say "whose there, what do you want?" and the police responded with "It's me Bill, I'm selling magazines" or did the guy just open his door with gun drawn and pointed?

Seems to me mistakes were made by both the police and the man. The police should have been much more proactive about making themselves known instead of just knocking, but the man shouldn't be answering his door by point his gun at people. There could be extremely legitimate reasons someone is knocking on your door. If you are worried about whose on the other side, you figure that out before you open the door. I just don't like the idea of a nervous, maybe paranoid man, pointing a gun at my face if I was to knock on someones front door for a legitimate reason.

I think if that was to happen my first response would be to go into fight mode for my life.

Still the police should have tripled checked they were at the right address (though it sounds like it was written down wrong, not read wrong) and they should have been yelling they were police when knocking.

St. Greatness · 07-17-2012, 03:21 PM

The reason that the police will sometimes barge in without saying who they are is so that the suspect they are looking for wont be at the door guns blazing. That said, this was an unfortunate mistake, and it cost an innocent man his life.

antipop · 07-17-2012, 03:26 PM

well, if you aren't doing anything wrong.....

SWJJ · 07-17-2012, 03:31 PM

This is akin to all the times police shoot people that look like they are pointing a gun and it turns out to be a toy or something.

Either proper protocols were not in place or they were not followed.

Police have no business firing unless fired upon or when a suspect is clearly threatening life, and has been asked to disarm by identified police.

PERIOD

Brandishing a firearm in your own home is not justification to get killed by police officers, at least it should not be in a civilized society.

Could the guy have done something differently and still be alive? Yes
Does he share in blame with the deptuties? absolutely not.

This was the fault of poor protocol or failure to follow protocol.

Semper · 07-17-2012, 04:36 PM

Are you kidding me? If you knock on a door and the guy opens it up with a gun pointed at your face, your expecting a felon and see that your would talk to the guy? I'm sorry but I carry guns, I take training courses as well, and I have never in my life answered the door with a gun pointed at someone. I agree mistakes were made in both sides, but it truly blows my mind when people just automatically blame the police. I swear if a cop caught a baby falling from a burning building some of you people would still find fault in the cop.

Zack Lee · 07-17-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper

Are you kidding me? If you knock on a door and the guy opens it up with a gun pointed at your face, your expecting a felon and see that your would talk to the guy? I'm sorry but I carry guns, I take training courses as well, and I have never in my life answered the door with a gun pointed at someone. I agree mistakes were made in both sides, but it truly blows my mind when people just automatically blame the police. I swear if a cop caught a baby falling from a burning building some of you people would still find fault in the cop.

I wonder if cops ever lie about circumstances. I wonder if one cops have ever messed up something serious and had a superior come in and clean it up for them a bit. I am glad I don't live in a city where we have to worry about anything like that.

Sun Wukong · 07-17-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper

Are you kidding me? If you knock on a door and the guy opens it up with a gun pointed at your face, your expecting a felon and see that your would talk to the guy? I'm sorry but I carry guns, I take training courses as well, and I have never in my life answered the door with a gun pointed at someone. I agree mistakes were made in both sides, but it truly blows my mind when people just automatically blame the police. I swear if a cop caught a baby falling from a burning building some of you people would still find fault in the cop.

The cops went to the WRONG house.

They did not announce their presence.

They killed a guy totally unrelated to the case they were working.

That's not a "mistake", that is a series of profound failures that led to the death of a human being. Was he "right" to answer the door with a gun? No. But if the cops were responsible, checked their info and knew what the hell they were doing, they SHOULDN'T HAVE EVEN BEEN THERE.

The problem with cops and their "mistakes" is that they always seem to result in death and destruction.

Madhunter · 07-17-2012, 05:38 PM

Well, if the police hadn't made the mistake in the first place this wouldn't have happened.
I had a deputy show up at my house one morning around 4am. We had called because I had just run a guy off with my gun that was trying to break in. When the cop arrived, he beat on my door without saying anything, I called out (while aiming my gun at the door) "Who is it?", you'd think at this point he'd say "sherrifs deputy" or "police", but he said "It's me". ?????, I asked "me who". He then said "sherrifs department". Now, I had the mind set that I didn't want to shoot the wrong person, or be shot, so I was making sure.
If someone in the wee hours comes beating on my door, they'd better let me know their friendly loud and clear while knocking, or I'm getting a new peep hole.

Madhunter · 07-17-2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Wukong

The cops went to the WRONG house.

They did not announce their presence.

They killed a guy totally unrelated to the case they were working.

That's not a "mistake", that is a series of profound failures that led to the death of a human being. Was he "right" to answer the door with a gun? No. But if the cops were responsible, checked their info and knew what the hell they were doing, they SHOULDN'T HAVE EVEN BEEN THERE.

The problem with cops and their "mistakes" is that they always seem to result in death and destruction.

I agree with your entire post, except this one line in red. Why was he wrong to go to the door of his home armed? Should he have been expecting the police? Just curious.

Chinny · 07-17-2012, 05:45 PM

Enough stupidity to go around for everyone in that situation. It's illegal to point a weapon at a person except in self defense.

The person lost their life. The cops should lose their job and the department will probably get hit with a civil suit that the tax payers will foot. Hopefully it hits the department budget and they (police) train their personnel better.