Is there a God?

[Yoweigh]

Originally Posted by Boondock

Because, nature... the very environment that we live and thrive in operates on concrete law and that law can be observed. So, I would further state that math always existed in nature. How else could Einstein compute E=MC2 on paper and turn around and observe nature in such a "lawfully/calculated" way. The equation E=MC2 was just an equation that needed to be discovered by man.
Such calculated equations hardly seem like coincidences to me and further my FAITH in God.

All you're doing is pushing the unknown back a layer. Where did god come from? Why doesn't god require an explanation when the universe itself does?

I agree that there's something almost mystical about the way the world works, but I would rather probe that mystery than invent something supernatural to explain it. I know that science can't tell us where we came from right now and I am totally ok with that. Existence proves itself. God doesn't.

To quote Douglas Adams, "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

[antipop]

Originally Posted by johnnyd

christian bingo must be 100x100 squares

[DaveXA]

Originally Posted by Yoweigh

All you're doing is pushing the unknown back a layer. Where did god come from? Why doesn't god require an explanation when the universe itself does?

I agree that there's something almost mystical about the way the world works, but I would rather probe that mystery than invent something supernatural to explain it. I know that science can't tell us where we came from right now and I am totally ok with that. Existence proves itself. God doesn't.

To quote Douglas Adams, "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

In the process of considering such mystery, many people considered there may be a source (creator) responsible for it all. I personally believe God is the source, and while there is much I don't understand about how things work, the mystery doesn't scare me in the least. I'm actually fascinated with the beauty of creation, and even moreso of the creator. Maybe the supernatural isn't something invented, but rather borne out of faith when we were kids and our first instinct when looking at the awesomeness of the stars in the sky and the feeling that somehow knowing that someone was watching over us, and I don't mean my parents either.

There is nothing I can say or do to convince someone of the truth of the Bible other than people need to find out on their own ultimately. I can't make someone believe, and, fortunately, that's not my job.

[Yoweigh]

I don't see why a creator is necessary to explain the existence of the universe if you can't explain the creator's existence either.

[guidomerkinsrules]

what seems clear about this thread - especially in terms of the god/science thing
is that we seem to pay MUCH more attention to them than they do to us

[authentic]

Originally Posted by Boondock

Because, nature... the very environment that we live and thrive in operates on concrete law and that law can be observed. So, I would further state that math always existed in nature. How else could Einstein compute E=MC2 on paper and turn around and observe nature in such a "lawfully/calculated" way. The equation E=MC2 was just an equation that needed to be discovered by man.
Such calculated equations hardly seem like coincidences to me and further my FAITH in God.

E=MC2 isn't even something that can be viewed in our daily lives. You literally have no idea what you're talking about, seriously.

[feoinfunroe]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic

We can point and say "that is the creature that man has labeled as dog"

We cannot, however, point and say "that is the creature that man has labeled as god"



Questions?

Originally Posted by Sarcastic

You're ridiculous. Read my post again.

OK, now that it's quiet I can see where we misunderstood each other. My bad.

A "creature labeled as god" by man can be found in the Book of Exodus. No sooner did "I AM" rescue the children of Israel from the Egyptians, and had miracles performed right in front of their faces, and had a sea parted so they could run through it to get away from the Egyptians, and then the sea closed and swallowed the pursuing Egyptian army... then, as soon as Moses turned his back, the Israelites took all the gold they'd managed to carry from Egypt, melted it down, and formed it into the image of a calf, and called it "god". That, again, is just one example.

So, yes, we can point and say, "this is god". It usually doesn't last very long, though.

[authentic]

What?

[feoinfunroe]

Originally Posted by authentic

What?

If I don't try to convince you that everything in the Bible is true, please don't try to convince me that everything in the Bible isn't true. It is a History book, also. That story is recorded in more than one history book. So what?

[Denzien]

Originally Posted by feoinfunroe

If I don't try to convince you that everything in the Bible is true, please don't try to convince me that everything in the Bible isn't true. It is a History book, also. That story is recorded in more than one history book. So what?

What about when the Jews lost the Torah and re-wrote everything from memory? You don't think anything was exaggerated in the revision or left out completely - like the footnotes for the adults?

Granted, I trust their memories more-so than of people today (who seem to have little need for it), but it's fallible nonetheless - especially when you consider the superstitious nature of people back then and their meager grasp of the whys of the natural world (something we're still working on - but we can predict the weather, man...the weather!!).


I once read a book with a Unicorn named Michael Tanner. I'll never get those 5 minutes back, but what can I do to convince you that the Unicorn once existed and was hunted by man for its horn? It's lucky the last surviving unicorns were smart enough to keep their horns from growing, and now they hide amongst domesticated horses.

[feoinfunroe]

Originally Posted by Denzien

What about when the Jews lost the Torah and re-wrote everything from memory? You don't think anything was exaggerated in the revision or left out completely - like the footnotes for the adults?

Granted, I trust their memories more-so than of people today (who seem to have little need for it), but it's fallible nonetheless - especially when you consider the superstitious nature of people back then and their meager grasp of the whys of the natural world (something we're still working on - but we can predict the weather, man...the weather!!).


I once read a book with a Unicorn named Michael Tanner. I'll never get those 5 minutes back, but what can I do to convince you that the Unicorn once existed and was hunted by man for its horn? It's lucky the last surviving unicorns were smart enough to keep their horns from growing, and now they hide amongst domesticated horses.

I do not believe everything in the Bible. That was my point. But some of it is very much true, some of it is historical fact, especially the parts that are in other books. Things that happened, and how they were dealt with by the people of the day.

The Ultimate Truth of the Bible is this: "God says, "see? I fixed it for you again!"
Man says: "See? We fouled it all up again!!!"

It reminds me of my teenagers.

[feoinfunroe]

Another point: When we have watched on live television the tsunamis, why would anyone doubt that "God parted the sea"?

Just because we know that there are "scientific explanations" doesn't mean they did. We don't even really know, either.

[Yoweigh]

If you can't believe everything in the bible, why believe anything in the bible at all?

[SWJJ]

Originally Posted by feoinfunroe

Another point: When we have watched on live television the tsunamis, why would anyone doubt that "God parted the sea"?

Just because we know that there are "scientific explanations" doesn't mean they did. We don't even really know, either.

How do we know the red sea really parted and this was not a tall tale.

[Yoweigh]

Originally Posted by feoinfunroe

Another point: When we have watched on live television the tsunamis, why would anyone doubt that "God parted the sea"?

Non sequitur.