12.04 LTS - Precise Pangolin

Jekylz Hyde · 05-02-2012, 08:42 AM

Wow...last post in this forum was back in November? I guess we all got our boxes tweaked to perfection and consistently performing in a reliably stable manner?!

Oops, just updated my Acer Aspire One 751h netbook to 12.04; has anyone else bumped up to the next LTS release? Thoughts? Inasmuch as I feared the Ubuntu Unity desktop, I was actively considering alternative distros when I reached the end of life for my 10.04 boxes. With this in mind, I must admit, this upgrade to 12.04 was an "accidental" process, but it's kinda worked out for me.

I originally had Ubuntu Netbook Remix (UNR) 10.04 on the Aspire One (AO). Loved it! Despite it's "inconsistent appearance" in comparison to my 10.04 desktop, it was absolutely a better interface for a netbook with a trackpad. While I was willing to consider an upgrade at the time of the next LTS release, I figured I would likely keep UNR 10.04, as it has been supremely stable...can't remember a single freeze/lockup/crash.

However, about 1 month ago, while adding some PPA sources and not paying full attention, I accidentally upgraded to 10.10 and decided to let it run its course, rather than interrupt it and fight the machine. I figured it was just easier to reinstall UNR 10.04 when it was done. After the 10.10 upgrade was completed, I figured I'd run out the whole evolution of upgrades to current LTS, just to see what I could learn. I then continued with 11.04 and 11.10. To my surprise, and despite my initial reactions to Unity, there were several things I actually liked about the more mature Unity desktop (v5.1?) in 11.10; despite my initial dislike, it started to grow on me a little...or maybe I was just less in shock?! In playing with it and becoming more familiar with the interface, I came to realize that the Unity interface is actually pretty good, maybe even preferable, for a laptop or netbook with trackpad navigation. Despite all this, 11.10 was very slow, unresponsive, and kinda buggy on my nettop's dual core Atom processors. In hearing that 12.04 betas were very much improved on 11.10 performance issues, and inasmuch as I don't use this machine heavily, I was willing to wait until April 27 to upgrade to the 12.04 LTS...kick the tires...THEN reinstall UNR 10.04.

A funny thing happened though. After upgrading to 12.04, the performance issues went away! No more sluggish, delayed responses; music was playable without "dropouts"; video was viewable without herky, jerky hesitation; and with sound & video issues subsiding, Skype was usable again! I've been playing with 12.04 for the past week and I think I'm gonna keep it! With a 5-year support cycle for the 12.04 version, it should be the last OS for this nettop's hardware life!

On top of that, I've learned about Ubuntu for Android coming to specified dual-core phone handset makers later in 2012 (coinciding with my Sprint upgrade!) and I can see how useful Ubuntu for Android could be with a phone, or perhaps an Android tablet, docked to my computer. That's plenty of time to get familiar and productive(!) with the Unity interface.

In the meantime, while I planned on leaving 10.04 on my production desktop until I am COMPLETELY comfortable with the Unity interface, I have learned that the application "gnome-panel" is available in the Software Center and have installed that on my Ubuntu 12.04 VirtualboxVM. It is nearly an identical drop-in replacement for my Gnome2 desktop in 10.04. While Applications and Places remain on the top menu bar, System has been moved over to the right hand User menu. This is the type of minor change I can live with, that won't throw my production desktop user workflow into a whole new paradigm, while allowing me to grow more comfortable (or not?!) with Unity as a production desktop interface. My options of CHOICE have been restored to me! This is what initially drew me to Linux and Ubuntu...USER CHOICE! My faith has been restored!

Back to the original intent of rendering an opinion of 12.04 for those who haven't tried it yet...it's okay...go ahead! With all of the performance issues subsided (for me, at least!) and with the planned Ubuntu for Android functionality, the 5-year support cycle, and the ability to choose a desktop UI of MY preference, I see no reason to switch distros (although I will continue to play with ALL of interest!) and will be upgrading all my machines to 12.04 LTS.

While I'm not trying to PUSH Ubuntu or Unity on anyone, I was wary & skeptical, but consider myself converted. A distro selection is a personal preference that is unique to the individual, and with that in mind, I encourage all those of interest (or even skeptical) to give it a shot with a LiveCD to see if it works for you too. Isn't CHOICE a beautiful thing? Man, I luvs me some Linux!!!!

*_deuce_* · 05-02-2012, 06:04 PM

I have tried all Linux based OS`s.Their ok.But I just don't see them as "Ready for prime time" or "For the typical home user" just yet.

AceTW · 05-02-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *_deuce_*

I have tried all Linux based OS`s.Their ok.But I just don't see them as "Ready for prime time" or "For the typical home user" just yet.

I've tried several Linux distros and never found them to be in the least intuitive or any more useful than Windows for a home user.

Your statement about them being "not ready for prime time" is one I've been using about Linux for....... 10 years or so?

How long does it take to get an OS to the point of being usable for everyone?

Is Google the only group to have gotten it right?

*_deuce_* · 05-02-2012, 08:29 PM

Good point Ace.And yes,Google may have gotten it right.They seem to be on the right track.

Jekylz Hyde · 05-03-2012, 08:17 AM

No disrespect intended guys, but when was the last time you checked it out? If recently, what do you consider "missing" that makes it "not ready for prime time" or for the "average everyday user?"

My question is not meant to be argumentative, but a genuine question based on YOUR criteria. While I might agree with SOME of those statements for SOME distros, IMO it is absolutely ready, and has been for at least the past 2 years. Maybe longer, depending on what you expect of your computer.

I consider myself an average everyday user and my operating system of choice is Ubuntu; currently 10.04, but soon to be 12.04. I surf the internet for information, entertainment, and to do research for my job; Firefox and/or Chromium are just as sufficient for my needs as Internet Explorer ever was. I often send/receive e-mails using Thunderbird. Using google calendar sync, I manage my schedule in Thunderbird, and occasionally create task lists to monitor progress with my "to do" lists; again all with Thunderbird. I'm able to sync field notes, etc... using Evernote on my Android, synced with NixNote on my desktop. I can also bluetooth any photos/videos/field notations from my Android to my desktop using Bluetooth Manager.

Upon completion of research, I'll typically assemble, analyze, and present data in a LibreOffice spreadsheet, and then prepare a written narrative summary of the data analyses and conclusions in LibreOffice Writer. I'll even put a few photos and/or charts in those reports. LibreOffice can do everything I've ever asked of Microsoft Office. In support of my report, I'll typically scan relevant information using gScan2PDF and merge it into the backend of a LibreOffice-created PDF file.

I often listen to my music collection while I'm doing this...and sometimes I get bored with my old music and download new songs from Amazon, and sync them to my Android tablet or my wife's iPod(!)...all from within Banshee, never leaving the Banshee window! Sometimes, I watch videos in Totem/Movie Player, but usually within VLC. I find both of these programs (Banshee & VLC) to be superior to anything else I've ever used on Windows (including WMP, iTunes, Zune, WinAmp, etc...) And when I buy a new DVD, I'll typically rip it to my hard drive using Handbrake and "rsync" it to my external data backup drive.

In short, I've completely replaced my Windows desktop with a Linux/Ubuntu OS and haven't given up ANY functionality in order to do that. Also, my system is "immune" to computer viruses and more stable than Windows ever was for me; it almost never freezes/locks-up/crashes (power outages excepted!) As an added bonus, now that I've learned how to do things "differently", there are some things that are actually easier on a Linux system, IMO!!!

I am not a gamer, and couldn't care less about that, but I'll readily agree that Linux is weak in that area...and Windows is probably the best choice for that functionality. Conversely, I'm not a photographer, videographer, nor recording engineer, but I'm told that MANY, if not most, professional operators utilize Linux for those functions.

Based on MY use of a computer (described above) is what I consider pretty typical of an everyday average user. With that said, in all seriousness, what about Linux makes it "not ready" for YOU? This is not an argumentative question...I have no intentions of getting into a verbal battle! I believe your choice of computer OS should be a matter of personal choice, not because the hardware manufacturer shoved it onto the device because of some monopolistic incentive or blackmail. I also truly believe more people would consider Linux if they only knew it existed and they had a choice. You obviously know, but weren't impressed. If your experience was too long ago, perhaps I've cleared some outdated misconceptions? If not, I am just curious as to what prevents you from considering Linux as a viable alternative.

AceTW · 05-03-2012, 10:39 AM

Jekylz, I didn't mean anything negativity towards you so I hope you didn't take any..

But Linux is simply not the operating system I would choose to take to Mrs. Howell's house and put on her computer. She would be irretrievably lost and I would get the call within a few days to bring her something else. That's what I mean by "not ready for prime time".

The last distro I tried was, I think, Linspire and being one that was actively advertised as being "the next best thing next to Windows", it fell far short of the mark. The argument can't even be made that "Oh that's the wrong one, you have to try 'this' one.", because if I try that one and it still doesn't perform the way I want it, someone else will say "Oh that's the wrong one, you have to try 'this' one." and so on and so on....

Facts are facts.

Pretty much everyone is used to the way Windows works and what it looks like. (Whether it works well or looks good isn't the point) The one other thing that the general population is used to is smart phone interfaces, which Microsoft is actually mimicking in their next OS release. (I hate it, btw.....)

You could say that "everyone" is used to Windows and until someone comes out with another system that VERY closely resembles it in style and operation, Windows will remain the OS of choice for the general population. Linux has had a total of 20+ years to produce a system that could be used by the mainstream and they simply haven't succeeded. Is it design? Marketing? Functionality? It's a lot of all 3. Had the Linux guru's of the 1990s produced a clone of sorts of a Windows interface to make it 'behave' like Windows (minus the crashing and such, of course) and advertised it properly they would all be billionaires by now.

I can't say what stopped them, besides maybe ego or an insistent desire to be "different", but so far in all it's digital life Linux has never even grazed the mainstream as a flagship OS, and I don't believe it ever will.

AceTW · 05-03-2012, 11:36 AM

Let me add in a little more to all this, just in case more arguments are to be presented....

I currently run a dual boot XP/7 installation on a dual core Intel with 4 gigs of DDR2 ram. It does everything I want it to, games, music, pictures/editing, web surfing, virtual machines, etc. It's about 5 years old now and has run without a hitch throughout it's life.
I have no anti-virus or anti-spyware and it has (are you ready?) never gotten infected. (The answer to this riddle is not using M$ products to interface with the internet.)
I have had one crash on this unit, and that was when I was trying to add a virtual machine to run Windows 8 as a beta tester. (I missed a setting that it required to install and it summarily blew up in my face.)

So, we end up with rock solid, uninfectable for all practical purposes, does everything I want it to do, and I know it inside and out.

Give me a good reason to switch and I'll consider it. Seriously.

Jekylz Hyde · 05-03-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceTW

Let me add in a little more to all this, just in case more arguments are to be presented....

I currently run a dual boot XP/7 installation on a dual core Intel with 4 gigs of DDR2 ram. It does everything I want it to, games, music, pictures/editing, web surfing, virtual machines, etc. It's about 5 years old now and has run without a hitch throughout it's life.
I have no anti-virus or anti-spyware and it has (are you ready?) never gotten infected. (The answer to this riddle is not using M$ products to interface with the internet.)
I have had one crash on this unit, and that was when I was trying to add a virtual machine to run Windows 8 as a beta tester. (I missed a setting that it required to install and it summarily blew up in my face.)

So, we end up with rock solid, uninfectable for all practical purposes, does everything I want it to do, and I know it inside and out.

Give me a good reason to switch and I'll consider it. Seriously.

Fair enough, Ace, and thanks for the reply!

No apologies are required, as no offense was taken! FWIW, I'm not actively recruiting Linux users...I'm just seeking to inform others that there is another choice!

I have had so many frustrating MS Windows experiences that I finally decided to do something about it, and haven't looked back since. In fact, I wonder "why didn't I do this sooner?" until I remember "oh yeah, that's right, I didn't KNOW I could!" And I've heard so many others complain about Windows experiences and assume they haven't done something about it because they didn't know either...so I try to inform, or correct misinformation when/if necessary! If you're happy with your Windows OS, then there's really no reason for you to switch! You tried another, didn't like it, and went back to Windows...nothing wrong with that in my book...it's YOUR choice! But, considering my experience(s), I wonder why others didn't stick with Linux, as I did? No right/wrong answers, just seeking knowledge! And I appreciate the opportunity to talk about the CHOICE without it degrading into some kind of fanboy personal attack...it's just computers! If you're unhappy with Windows/Macs, there's a viable alternative; if you're happy with your current setup, KEEP IT...it's OKAY!!!

But if your curiousity gets piqued again, and look/feel/act like Windows is your criteria, then Linux Mint is probably the distro to try. I have introduced several new users to Linux Mint based on its similarities to Windows, despite my personal preference for Ubuntu, and they seem to like it and keep it! FWIW...

Buickman · 05-03-2012, 06:18 PM

Just to toss in my 2 cents, it always boils down to the user and what they want to accomplish. Myself, I have 2 systems. One is a Windows 7 system that I use for gaming, and it's also my main system since it's right in front of me and has 3 monitors hooked up.

I have a linux system (still running Debian) sitting behind me that just runs. It's my file, email, web, samba (guess that goes with file) server that I also use for burning, ripping, fetching emails from multiple accounts (fetchmail) and check those emails remotely via http (squirrelmail), and other things that I don't want to pay for, like Office, Nero, or whatever else. It works great for basic home/office computing or as a server...If that's what you want. And believe it or not, you can do all of that with an older system. You don't have to keep up with all of the latest hardware to keep up with the most current windows programs.

As far as the programs, they just don't load all of them on a distro. The repositories are full of programs for everyday use. You just have to know what to look for, and I generally find what I need with a google search. If I wasn't so much as a gaming nut I'd have Linux running on this machine also. and that's the Linux drawback. It sucks for high graphics gaming.

So Jekylz, gnome-panel looks just like the gnome of old?

Jekylz Hyde · 05-03-2012, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buickman

So Jekylz, gnome-panel looks just like the gnome of old?

Buick, I remember you HATED Unity! Yeah, gnome-panel looks ALMOST identical to Gnome2 desktop. Applications & Places are still where you expect on the top bar, but System has been moved to the right notification area. The bottom bar is nearly identical, and you can mount volumes/icons on the desktop, although I like a clean look. I've attached a screenshot of the Ubuntu 12.04 Gnome Classic desktop for you, running in my Virtualbox VM.

Once you install/upgrade to 12.04, it will default to the Unity desktop. Just go to the Software Center and select gnome-panel for download & install (synaptic is no longer there, it's been merged into the Software Center). Log out, sign in with password, but BEFORE you hit enter, click icon on top right of user/sign-in box and select Gnome Classic desktop; THEN hit enter. The login will automatically default to the last desktop setting, so it'll stay Gnome Classic as long as you don't change it to Unity. Enough to tempt you back into Ubuntu's good graces, buddy?!

AceTW · 05-03-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jekylz Hyde

Fair enough, Ace, and thanks for the reply!

No apologies are required, as no offense was taken! FWIW, I'm not actively recruiting Linux users...I'm just seeking to inform others that there is another choice!

I have had so many frustrating MS Windows experiences that I finally decided to do something about it, and haven't looked back since. In fact, I wonder "why didn't I do this sooner?" until I remember "oh yeah, that's right, I didn't KNOW I could!" And I've heard so many others complain about Windows experiences and assume they haven't done something about it because they didn't know either...so I try to inform, or correct misinformation when/if necessary! If you're happy with your Windows OS, then there's really no reason for you to switch! You tried another, didn't like it, and went back to Windows...nothing wrong with that in my book...it's YOUR choice! But, considering my experience(s), I wonder why others didn't stick with Linux, as I did? No right/wrong answers, just seeking knowledge! And I appreciate the opportunity to talk about the CHOICE without it degrading into some kind of fanboy personal attack...it's just computers! If you're unhappy with Windows/Macs, there's a viable alternative; if you're happy with your current setup, KEEP IT...it's OKAY!!!

But if your curiousity gets piqued again, and look/feel/act like Windows is your criteria, then Linux Mint is probably the distro to try. I have introduced several new users to Linux Mint based on its similarities to Windows, despite my personal preference for Ubuntu, and they seem to like it and keep it! FWIW...

Tell you what, the next thing I throw in a VM will be that one, just because it's one I haven't heard of and you'e gotten me intrigued. No guarantees it'll ever be more than a virtual machine, but I'll at least give it a whirl.

Jekylz Hyde · 05-04-2012, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceTW

Tell you what, the next thing I throw in a VM will be that one, just because it's one I haven't heard of and you'e gotten me intrigued. No guarantees it'll ever be more than a virtual machine, but I'll at least give it a whirl.

Cool! An open mind is the best that can be hoped for! Here's a link, for whenever you're ready:

Main Page - Linux Mint

There are versions for Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE - based on Debian); Linux Mint KDE (with a KDE desktop, instead of default Gnome); Linux Mint 12 (soon to be 13 in about 1 month); and Linux Mint LXDE (Lightweight X11 Desktop Environment). I am NOT familiar with LMDE or KDE versions! I typically set new Linux users up with the main version Mint 12, as that is the most similar to their familiar Windows frame of reference. It's not Windows, but it's the closest thing in the Linux Ecosystem, IMO! If your hardware is a little older, or you're looking for something a little more "snappy" then Mint LXDE is substantially similar in appearance to Mint 12, but with an LXDE desktop. In plain english, LXDE is less "bloated", requires less system resources, and has a different set of default applications. Of all the Mints, I prefer Mint LXDE, but I truly think the main version Mint 12 is the best fit for a "windows migrator". Good luck and hope you enjoy!

Of course, if you like it, I will be taking FULL CREDIT for your newfound interest; but if you don't like it, I will DISAVOW all knowledge of this conversation and this post will be posthumously deleted! ;-)

Buickman · 06-17-2012, 06:51 AM

I gave 12.04 a shot a few months ago on a spare drive when it was released, however I started having a lot of lag issues after I installed the NVidia driver. At the time I just didn't have the patience to deal with it so I wiped it. I don't generally install in a VM because I want to ensure it's going to work with all of my hardware.

The problem started bugging me because I was having the same video issues with Gentoo and Debian Wheezy beta. I decided to try 12.04 again the other day and ran into the same video issues only this time I googled it. Turns out the new NVidia driver for Linux doesn't play nice with older video cards. In fact my 8800GTS was specifically mentioned. I replaced it with a GTX 560 that I had laying around (long story) and everything started running correctly. I installed compiz-fusion and emerald and everything works as it should.

Problem now is that my Debian Squeeze drive won't load gnome. I guess the driver I was using for it is too old. I just get a black screen with a cursor that blinks occasionally. Fortunately I can still access what little data I had on that drive through samba so I moved everything to the 12.04 drive.

I guess I'll run with 12.04 until the final release of Wheezy.

Jekylz Hyde · 06-17-2012, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buickman

I gave 12.04 a shot a few months ago on a spare drive when it was released, however I started having a lot of lag issues after I installed the NVidia driver. At the time I just didn't have the patience to deal with it so I wiped it. I don't generally install in a VM because I want to ensure it's going to work with all of my hardware.

The problem started bugging me because I was having the same video issues with Gentoo and Debian Wheezy beta. I decided to try 12.04 again the other day and ran into the same video issues only this time I googled it. Turns out the new NVidia driver for Linux doesn't play nice with older video cards. In fact my 8800GTS was specifically mentioned. I replaced it with a GTX 560 that I had laying around (long story) and everything started running correctly. I installed compiz-fusion and emerald and everything works as it should.

Problem now is that my Debian Squeeze drive won't load gnome. I guess the driver I was using for it is too old. I just get a black screen with a cursor that blinks occasionally. Fortunately I can still access what little data I had on that drive through samba so I moved everything to the 12.04 drive.

I guess I'll run with 12.04 until the final release of Wheezy.

OR, you could select the prior generation of nVidia driver. I have a GeForce 8300 GS and I'm running the "current version" in 10.04 (haven't had a chance to upgrade my production desktop top...THAT is a long story!) which I believe is 195. I think current is in the 250s now, with the 3.0+ kernel. My alternative rollback choice is version 173. I've got to believe the 195 version would perform well on your 8800, as it's from a similar era as my 8300.

I remember you switched to Debian awhile back and I looked into that myself, but I opted not to, as Debian still uses Gnome2; but it seems that Gnome3 is the wave of the future for Gnome desktops, and it's just a matter of time until Debian has polished it up and considers it ready. I saw this happen with KDE desktops when they hit 4.0(?) and I chuckled to myself at their misfortune. Now KDE is widely acknowledged to be mature at 4.7 and they're chuckling at us Gnome users. However, I don't like Gnome3 and I don't want to fight that battle 2x. I've learned to like the Unity desktop, and I REALLY like the gnome-panel plugin to make Gnome3 resemble Gnome2. I'm gonna stick with Ubuntu as my main production box, and continue to load up VirtualBox VMs of every distro that looks interesting and tinker away!

How about you? Are you a Unity convert now, or is the gnome-panel plugin/extension what drew you back in?

Buickman · 06-18-2012, 10:08 AM

I didn't see an option for 173 when I installed the driver in 12.04. I guess I could roll it the hard way (manually). Well, the 8800 was starting to act a little flaky anyway and I had the 560 that I bought by mistake because I was led to believe it would do something that it can't (display 3 independent monitors instead of the stretch-a-rama thing).

I'm using the classic gnome right now, I may try the gnome panel. The only visual difference I can see is that the Administrative and Preferences menus are located under Applications -> System. Not that big of a deal to me. Still don't like Unity.

Debian Wheezy looks to be moving to a Unity-based desktop, however the option is there for Classic Gnome. I've tried playing with Wheezy some, but like any beta it still has it's bugs.

Regardless, now that I have 12.04 running the way I like, I'll probably just stick with it. I'll continue to play with other distros, but this will be the main. Like I've said before, my linux box just sits there behind me and acts as a email/file/web server. I don't use it for normal everyday stuff, but I will use it for burning discs and stuff like that. More like a utility system, I guess.