Climategate turned on its head this time

[wcklink]

Originally Posted by Yoweigh

According to the author of the study you are citing:

Probably realized he could loose his funding and backtracked to the best of his ability. But that aside, you are asking us to believe that all of Europe was quite warm, much warmer than today, and outside of that, the only other single warm spot on the planet was where this guy decided to study. Other than these two spots, the rest of the world was much cooler than these "hot spots". That's really what you believe?

[Yoweigh]

The IPCC Third Assessment Report from 2001 summarised research at that time, saying "…current evidence does not support globally synchronous periods of anomalous cold or warmth over this time frame, and the conventional terms of 'Little Ice Age' and 'Medieval Warm Period' appear to have limited utility in describing trends in hemispheric or global mean temperature changes in past centuries".

Medieval Warm Period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by wcklink

you are asking us to believe that all of Europe was quite warm, much warmer than today

Cite that.

[wcklink]

Originally Posted by Yoweigh

Medieval Warm Period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Cite that.

I think it been shown the IPCC is long on politics and agenda and short on science. Give me something else. IPCC is simply looking for a way to collect money from the G8 countries for their rape of the climate.

[Yoweigh]

the IPCC consists of thousands of scientists and experts around the world. everything they publish is approved (line-by-line!) by over 120 government bodies. all of their work is based on peer-reviewed and published scientific literature. what else do you want?

i posted data refuting your claim that "all of Europe was quite warm, much warmer than today" and asked you to cite that information. you responded with an ad hominem attack on the IPCC. if you can't cite it i'm going to assume that you're talking out of your *** again.

[BHM]

Originally Posted by J-Donk

He for sure was alarmist. The whole idea of the world essentially baking up into a fireball by the end of the century is crazy talk. I don't know why we all can't admit AGW is real, and that we are not going to sacrifice anything in the short term over it. What we can do is drop a few less bombs, and invest in more green tech. I am not convinced a lot of this won't take care of itself so long as we continue to invest.

Wind farms are raising temperatures on the ground.

Large Wind Farms Raise Temperature Near Ground - WSJ.com





What now? How much will the earth cool with all the solar panels reflecting heat back up into the atmosphere? What effect will that have?

[Yoweigh]

Specifically, the study found that large tracts of wind turbines in remote areas of Texas appear to be increasing local surface temperatures. The results of this study have been misconstrued by certain media outlets as ironic evidence that a supposedly "green" technology is contributing to global warming, despite the lack of any supporting evidence.

Don't believe the headlines. Wind farms do not cause 'global' warming. - CSMonitor.com

[dtc]

Originally Posted by BHM

Wind farms are raising temperatures on the ground.

Large Wind Farms Raise Temperature Near Ground - WSJ.com





What now? How much will the earth cool with all the solar panels reflecting heat back up into the atmosphere? What effect will that have?

Interesting thoughts. We've been evaluating several solar panel installations and found that the reflection and absorption of surface mount panels changes the temperature of attic space a lot.

The panels function as radiant barriers and reduce attic temps so not only are they supplying free electricity, but reducing the electrical demand of a house.

GLOBAL WARMING..............................

[V Chip]

Originally Posted by BHM

Wind farms are raising temperatures on the ground.

Large Wind Farms Raise Temperature Near Ground - WSJ.com



What now? How much will the earth cool with all the solar panels reflecting heat back up into the atmosphere? What effect will that have?

How ironic that those who most forcefully say that climate change isn't anthropomorphic would cite a study to try and weaken the arguments for climate change and yet that study claims that man does "have some long-term effect on the immediate environment" (weakening their non-human caused claims) and then they also erroneously apply the local results on a global scale which undermines the point they were trying to make.

Rich.

[peresich]

I saw that wind farm article a few days ago and wondered how long it would take for that piece of junk science to get posted here.

[wcklink]

Originally Posted by peresich

I saw that wind farm article a few days ago and wondered how long it would take for that piece of junk science to get posted here.

About as long as it took to post a junk science study from the IPCC.

[BHM]

Originally Posted by V Chip

How ironic that those who most forcefully say that climate change isn't anthropomorphic would cite a study to try and weaken the arguments for climate change and yet that study claims that man does "have some long-term effect on the immediate environment" (weakening their non-human caused claims) and then they also erroneously apply the local results on a global scale which undermines the point they were trying to make.

Rich.

Immediate environment is not on the same scale as global climate.

My air conditioner cools my immediate environment but evidently the billions of units out there are not cooling the earth.

[BHM]

Originally Posted by dtradin

Interesting thoughts. We've been evaluating several solar panel installations and found that the reflection and absorption of surface mount panels changes the temperature of attic space a lot.

The panels function as radiant barriers and reduce attic temps so not only are they supplying free electricity, but reducing the electrical demand of a house.

GLOBAL WARMING..............................

That is actually one of the reasons I want solar panels on my roof. But that "free" electricity comes with a hefty upfront price tag. One that I may not be able to afford by the time I finish building my house.

Unless of course you needed a test house for your research and offered a free solar set up to me.


Now I wonder if every in the world had its roof covered with aluminum foil which would reflect solar radiation back up to space, could we lower our global temperature?

[dtc]

Originally Posted by BHM

That is actually one of the reasons I want solar panels on my roof. But that "free" electricity comes with a hefty upfront price tag. One that I may not be able to afford by the time I finish building my house.

Unless of course you needed a test house for your research and offered a free solar set up to me.


Now I wonder if every in the world had its roof covered with aluminum foil which would reflect solar radiation back up to space, could we lower our global temperature?

There are already studies being done that are, in theory, similar to the idea of reflecting heat away from our atmosphere. Who knows what will be possible in 20 or 30 years?

FYI, I just did a solar PV installation for a friend and our cost including installation was less than $16k. 5.2kw generates about $125 per month here and after the 30% refundable tax credit and various local/state and utility programs the net cost was less than $10k

That's right at a 15% ROI.

[Yoweigh]

Originally Posted by wcklink

About as long as it took to post a junk science study from the IPCC.

Thousands of scientists around the world. Peer review. Government oversight. I ask again, what else do you want? The science WITHOUT those mechanisms is the junk.

[whodat??]

Originally Posted by Yoweigh

Medieval Warm Period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Cite that.

This graph is laughable.





L

ong-term, temperatures are now declining (for the last 3,000 years), and we appear to be headed for the next 90,000 year ice age, right on schedule at the end of our current 10,000 year warm period. We have repeated this cycle 46 times in succession over the last 2.6 million years. And in case you are wondering, the previous Antarctic ice cores tell a broadly similar story. The following graph of ice core data from Vostok (vertical scale in degrees C variation from present) shows that Antarctica is also experiencing a long-term (4,000 year) cooling trend mirroring the Greenland GISP2 cooling trend. Though the individual temperature spikes and dips are different than in Greenland, the long-term temperature trend on the planet appears to be down, not up. And since it is so late in our current interglacial period, we could be concerned about global cooling.

Source

65 million years of cooling
The following two graphs (images created by Robert A. Rohde / Global Warming Art) are climate records based on oxygen isotope thermometry of deep-ocean sediment cores from many parts of the world [1]). On both graphs, colder temperatures are toward the bottom, and warmer temperatures toward the top. Significant temperature events on the first graph show the start and end of Antarctic glaciation 34 and 25 million years ago, and the resumption of glaciation about 13 million years ago. It is obvious from the graph that we are now living in the coldest period of Earth’s history for the last 65 million years. Despite recent rumors of global warming, we are actually in a deep freeze.