GOP War on Voters

[krushing]

Originally Posted by drob8785

I'm still waiting...three people stopped by my post long enough to red thumb it, and yet none of them were willing to try to answer the question I posed...

What's wrong with them getting new IDs. If they can get to a voting booth, surely they can get a new ID with a new picture. ...Transgender or not.

[wcklink]

Originally Posted by Optimus Prime

from today's Washington Post
================================================== ==

Republicans are waging the most concerted campaign to prevent or discourage citizens from exercising their legitimate voting rights since the Jim Crow days of poll taxes and literacy tests.

Four years ago, Democrats expanded American democracy by registering millions of new voters — mostly young people and minorities — and persuading them to show up at the polls. Apparently, the GOP is determined not to let any such thing happen again.

According to the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice at New York University, which keeps track of changes in voting laws, 22 statutes and two executive actions aimed at restricting the franchise have been approved in 17 states since the beginning of 2011. By the center’s count, an additional 74 such bills are pending.

The most popular means of discouraging those young and minority voters — who, coincidentally, tend to vote for Democrats — is legislation requiring citizens to show government-issued photo identification before they are allowed to cast a ballot. Photo ID bills have been approved by Republican-controlled legislatures in Alabama, Kansas, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin, and by referendum in Mississippi. Only one state with a Democratic-controlled legislature — Rhode Island — passed a law requiring voters to produce identification, and it does not mandate a government ID with a photo. In Virginia, Republican Gov. Bob McDonnell has not decided whether to sign a voter ID bill the legislature sent to his desk.......................


The GOP

Of course this is just crap. Those poor college kids can't get ID to vote, but will get it, I can assure, so they can buy beer for the kegger this weekend, for which they will need ID. Can't cash a check without ID. You can't even buy a can of spray paint from Home Depot without showing ID, but you should be able to vote without it?

BTW, claims of supposed voter suppression are continually unproven, while people voting in two states, voting while dead, and felons voting are shown every election cycle. The above vote mostly democrat as well.

[saintfan-n-alex]

Originally Posted by Cosmic201

How the **** does those things have anything in common with each other?
The right to vote is in the United States Constitution.
So is paying income tax.

To equate that not limiting peoples right to vote means we should be okay with people not paying income tax is a little perplexing in your thought path.
Religious schools can already teach their beliefs. They can't do it in public schools. Something else that follows the United States Constitution. So once again, failing to see how you equate the two.

voter ids are to show you have legal right to vote and you are voting under your name - the primary comcern is u.s citizenry to vote, since we have basically open borders IDs should be required - being a state rights person i dont blink an eye at states that mandate nor do not mandate voter ids -

since illegal aliens are by definition breaking federal law, why not allow those of us who would rather not spend monies we do not have on federal taxes we should get the same equal forgiveness of a federal law of our choice.

mine will be the IRS, others can choose their law to break that best applies to their lives


this country or better said the liberal gov, just made a huge deal over religious freedoms that led to the pelosi-fluke farce - all based on religous intolerance - there is allot of religous intolerance of late seemingly directed at certain beliefs.


with cheap to free state ids availible along with absentee ballots being exempt from state ids as in the article of the elderly lady above the elimination of certain peoples voter rights is an argument of the liberal racists - while certain people of INCOME may need further assitance in obtaining a state id.

i find it humorus that whenever liberals make the claims of racism connected with poverty poor white people are almost always not considered in the argument - very sharptonesc


on a side note, not sure if anyone has ever let you or others who seem to post on the political board know cursng and name calling doesnt re-enforce your argument, often times it lessens its validity. - i understand when the topic hits very close to home and emotions get involved for abit but when it becomes a "signature" its telling of other issues.

[V Chip]

Originally Posted by wcklink

BTW, claims of supposed voter suppression are continually unproven, while people voting in two states, voting while dead, and felons voting are shown every election cycle. The above vote mostly democrat as well.

Ok, then lets see it. Show me that more than a handful of any of these exist every election cycle. Show me the statistics that show the "fraud" vote mostly democratic (or vote mostly any party for that matter).

(BTW felons voting has absolutely nothing to do with requiring an ID to vote. Felons vote illegally in states that already require picture ID to vote, but I'm sure that doesn't even matter to you.)

[V Chip]

Originally Posted by saintfan-n-alex

the primary comcern is u.s citizenry to vote, since we have basically open borders IDs should be required - being a state rights person i dont blink an eye at states that mandate nor do not mandate voter ids

Ok lets take a step back on this.

If a non-resident (alien) is voting, how did they vote? What process allowed them to vote?

1. They were illegally registered to vote (non-citizens cannot register to vote), and then showed up to vote. This will not be fixed by Voter ID, as it is a problem with the registration, NOT voting. Once someone is on the voter rolls, they can vote. If John Doe -- a resident alien from Canada -- is illegally on the rolls, when he shows up to vote with a valid picture ID (driver's licenses can be issued to non-residents), or with a faked picture ID that matches his registration, he can vote and it won't matter.
2. They were not registered and voted under someone else's name. This occurs very infrequently (because the chances of being caught -- it's very possible the person being impersonated has already voted, or will show up later to vote and cause an issue, or having to know the information of the person being impersonated). This one would likely be caught by Voter ID, but this same problem can happen to residents or non-residents, so not really sure why non-residents would be singled out in your post. But yes, voter impersonation would be curtailed with a Voter ID system.
3. Some other way I am not thinking of?

So can you explain what about alien voters in particular is a problem that would be solved by Voter ID laws?

[TulsaSaint]

Originally Posted by krushing

You can't even open a checking account in today's world without a valid ID. You can't get a ATM card without one. If the Dems want to help, help valid US citizens get ID's. Its the people not encouraging them to get IDs that are keeping these folks down and treating them like second class citizens.
You can't even get certain types of government assistance without a photo ID. What's the real agenda with not requiring ID's?

Once again, that's not the question. If it were, the answer would be that it should be easier to vote than to do any of those things. You don't have a constitutional right to a checking account or an ATM card. You do have a constitutional right to vote. If even one person's right to vote is violated as a result of these bills, that's too many.

Moreover, you have your question backwards. Those of us who defend a position that's been held for 225 years don't have to explain what the agenda is, particularly when there's no evidence that it's not working. Those who want to change it without cause have a responsibility to explain what their agenda is.

Hilarious that all these people who are so obsessed, supposedly, with defending the Constitution don't care that nowhere in the Constitution does it say that you have a right to vote unless you don't have an ID. It doesn't say "all men and women over 18 who have a valid photo ID." What happened to that strict constructionism? It's the same people who think we need an ID to vote who think, on the basis of strict constructionism, that you shouldn't need one to buy a gun.

[JLaneSaints]

Originally Posted by V Chip

Ok lets take a step back on this.

If a non-resident (alien) is voting, how did they vote? What process allowed them to vote?

1. They were illegally registered to vote (non-citizens cannot register to vote), and then showed up to vote. This will not be fixed by Voter ID, as it is a problem with the registration, NOT voting. Once someone is on the voter rolls, they can vote. If John Doe -- a resident alien from Canada -- is illegally on the rolls, when he shows up to vote with a valid picture ID (driver's licenses can be issued to non-residents), or with a faked picture ID that matches his registration, he can vote and it won't matter.
2. They were not registered and voted under someone else's name. This occurs very infrequently (because the chances of being caught -- it's very possible the person being impersonated has already voted, or will show up later to vote and cause an issue, or having to know the information of the person being impersonated). This one would likely be caught by Voter ID, but this same problem can happen to residents or non-residents, so not really sure why non-residents would be singled out in your post. But yes, voter impersonation would be curtailed with a Voter ID system.
3. Some other way I am not thinking of?

So can you explain what about alien voters in particular is a problem that would be solved by Voter ID laws?

Let me get this straight. YOu admit in your own writing that there is a problem that CAN be caught by Voter ID (see#2), then you ask people to explain what problem would be solved by Voter ID?

[TulsaSaint]

Originally Posted by drob8785

I'm still waiting...three people stopped by my post long enough to red thumb it, and yet none of them were willing to try to answer the question I posed...

Because there is no answer to it. The only justifications people have given for these bills are 1) to stave off electoral fraud, and 2) because you need an ID to do other things. In the case of 1), there is no electoral fraud, so that's not valid. In the case of 2), it's no argument at all, because you don't have a constitutional right to those other things, so the burden to identify oneself is outweighed by the right to vote, IMO.

[TulsaSaint]

Originally Posted by JLaneSaints

Let me get this straight. YOu admit in your own writing that there is a problem that CAN be caught by Voter ID (see#2), then you ask people to explain what problem would be solved by Voter ID?

Because there is no evidence that voter impersonation is an actual problem. I can admit that a big plastic tarp over my house might render the house invisible to UFOs, but that doesn't mean I think there's a pressing need for a tarp.

If voter impersonation suddenly becomes an issue that's influencing the results of elections, then sure, let's require a photo ID. Until then, you'll need a better reason.

[krushing]

Is there anyone on here who has not been able to get a valid picture ID? Maybe we can get togather as a group and help them. Sounds like a noble cause.

[El Caliente]

I am worried about the Republican voters rights that will be infringed upon if we move to this system.

[V Chip]

Originally Posted by JLaneSaints

Let me get this straight. YOu admit in your own writing that there is a problem that CAN be caught by Voter ID (see#2), then you ask people to explain what problem would be solved by Voter ID?

I'll put it straight -- again.

I say that voter impersonation is a problem that can be caught by Voter ID laws, but that it is extremely rare and happens amongst ALL people, not just alien voters.

I then ask "what about alien voters in particular is a problem that would be solved by Voter ID laws?" Directly addressing the content of his post, which was that "the primary comcern is u.s citizenry to vote, since we have basically open borders IDs should be required."

Capiche?

[IntenseSaint]

I just don't think voter fraud is a big enough problem that we need to really worry about. Do those who think it is believe that Democrats are actively cheating to try and win elections? If so then you must also believe that Republicans are also trying to cheat by way of large Republican donors like the owner if Diebold by electronically rigging elections through software in voting machines they produce for elections.

[krushing]

I know at least 20 folks who don't vote, but are registered to vote...Without a picture ID requiremet, I could vote for each one of them at a busy polling place and noone would ever know. Dont you guys see that as a problem?

[IntenseSaint]

Originally Posted by krushing

I know at least 20 folks who don't vote, but are registered to vote...Without a picture ID requiremet, I could vote for each one of them at a busy polling place and noone would ever know. Dont you guys see that as a problem?

Are you saying they are doing this on their own volition or are Democratic party operatives behind it? I want to know what you are implying here.

Are you saying Democrats are actively trying to cheat?