Iran demands U.S. prisoner swap

[RiverCitySaint]

Originally Posted by mister pc

Im complaining about the fact that apparently no one on this board is on the side of the American prisoners.

Why do you think that is?

It's been said about a billion times all over the internet that one should know what could easily happen when hanging out in hostile nations.

[mister pc]

Originally Posted by RiverCitySaint

Why do you think that is?

It's been said about a billion times all over the internet that one should know what could easily happen when hanging out in hostile nations.

thats exactly what im talking about. The attitude that its their fault for being involved in middle east studies and journalism, they deserve the consequences they receive. These are innocent people and everyone is cool with abandoning them because their big sin was trying to be journalists and study middle east culture.

[RiverCitySaint]

Originally Posted by mister pc

thats exactly what im talking about. The attitude that its their fault for being involved in middle east studies and journalism, they deserve the consequences they receive.

There are just some places it may be deemed unwise to visit or hike around.
Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan (and every other 'stan...), North Korea, North Vietnam, various places in Mexico and South America.... etc.

Did they think that just because they are Americans they'd be privy to special treatment?

I'm sorry for what happened to those kids, but they sure as Hell should have known the immediate danger they were putting themselves in. You cannot deny that. I do hope they can return safely to the USA. Besides, they'll make an absolute fortune on book sales, tv interviews, and maybe a Nike endorsement.

[mister pc]

Originally Posted by RiverCitySaint

There are just some places it may be deemed unwise to visit or hike around.
Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan (and every other 'stan...), North Korea, North Vietnam, various places in Mexico and South America.... etc.

Did they think that just because they are Americans they'd be privy to special treatment?

I'm sorry for what happened to those kids, but they sure as Hell should have known the immediate danger they were putting themselves in. You cannot deny that. I do hope they can return safely to the USA. Besides, they'll make an absolute fortune on book sales, tv interviews, and maybe a Nike endorsement.

it certainly is risky to be a journalist in a conflict zone. But when did that ever mean when a journalist is captured, we wash our hands of them? i guess its their own fault for being in a dangerous area, so "screw them".

[abnrgr]

It's not that we don't care about them but honestly there is really nothing we can do at this time. Often we distance ourselves to deal with the situation. Note, things were done to try to save these Americans from the moment the arrest was discovered but unfortunately they were moved immediately and it became "politics". Currently the US position of asking for release while remaining patient is the wisest thing we can do to get them back unharmed. Realize we have to balance anything we do against a foreign policy focused on denying Iran nuclear weapons so that is the priority. Direct talks with Iran will not happen so a proxy like a prominent muslim cleric or even a third party like Iraq would have to be used. There is no simple solution.

[RiverCitySaint]

Originally Posted by mister pc

it certainly is risky to be a journalist in a conflict zone. But when did that ever mean when a journalist is captured, we wash our hands of them? i guess its their own fault for being in a dangerous area, so "screw them".

Yes, it is risky to be a journalist in a conflict zone, but they weren't being journalists... they were taking a hike. Example : "What a lovely day. Lets go hiking dangerously close to the Iranian border."

Not having taken any journalism classes, don't they warn their students who may go in to a dangerous area to stay close to security (in this case soldiers)?

I may be wrong, but they are students right? If so, they are not "journalists" yet any more than I am a network security engineer yet. I am a student. One has to admit their geography and recreational decisions are in question here. And no one is saying we should wash our hands of them. I'm just not sure what would be appropriate to do in reacquiring them. Do we use this as a sounding board to invade Iran now?

[mister pc]

Originally Posted by abnrgr

It's not that we don't care about them but honestly there is really nothing we can do at this time. Often we distance ourselves to deal with the situation. Note, things were done to try to save these Americans from the moment the arrest was discovered but unfortunately they were moved immediately and it became "politics". Currently the US position of asking for release while remaining patient is the wisest thing we can do to get them back unharmed. Realize we have to balance anything we do against a foreign policy focused on denying Iran nuclear weapons so that is the priority. Direct talks with Iran will not happen so a proxy like a prominent muslim cleric or even a third party like Iraq would have to be used. There is no simple solution.

i understand that. to be clear, im not criticizing the Obama Administration's handling of this issue. what i am criticizing is the popular reaction on this message board.

[mister pc]

Originally Posted by RiverCitySaint

Yes, it is risky to be a journalist in a conflict zone, but they weren't being journalists... they were taking a hike. Example : "What a lovely day. Lets go hiking dangerously close to the Iranian border."

Not having taken any journalism classes, don't they warn their students who may go in to a dangerous area to stay close to security (in this case soldiers)?

I may be wrong, but they are students right? If so, they are not "journalists" yet any more than I am a network security engineer yet. I am a student. One has to admit their geography and recreational decisions are in question here. And no one is saying we should wash our hands of them. I'm just not sure what would be appropriate to do in reacquiring them. Do we use this as a sounding board to invade Iran now?

plenty of people are saying we should wash our hands of them, did you not read this thread? They are graduates, no longer students. Shane Bauer, one of the captured hikers:

Bauer's writing and photography have appeared in The Chronicle's opinion pages, among other outlets. In recent months, while based in Damascus, Syria, he filed several photojournalism pieces - often from the perspective of ordinary Arabs - that were published online by San Francisco's New American Media.

"The huge concern is that we won't know where he is, or who has him, or how to reach him," said Sandy Close, executive editor of New American Media.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-08-0...ict-government

[RiverCitySaint]

I read the thread, but did not take some posts seriously. Often times some want to stand out as jokers, I being one of them many times I admit. But I will go out on a limb and suggest not a single person on here wishes them ill will.

Sorry, I thought they were still students and not graduates. To be honest I am not interested in their complete bios. Be that as it may, at the moment of capture they were not working but rather taking a hike where they shouldn't have been and without security. To find out that they are graduates makes this even worse. This equates to someone who just graduated a safety course and decided to take a stroll on the interstate, during rush hour, against traffic, and in the middle of the road. It does not take a genius to deduce something terrible is likely to happen.

[abnrgr]

Why a quartet of adults would choose to visit one of the most dangerous areas in the world without personal security or even alerting US/Kurdish authorities to their presence is confusing.

[RiverCitySaint]

Originally Posted by abnrgr

Why a quartet of adults would choose to visit one of the most dangerous areas in the world without personal security or even alerting US/Kurdish authorities to their presence is confusing.

I was going to wait until tomorrow to post this, but I think it's pertinent to the discussion. Bear with me.

I went to high school in Germany the first time in 1987 and some of us had a very rare opportunity to go behind the Iron Curtain throughout (then) East Germany and Czechoslovakia. Several meetings were held prior to this and in one of them we were required to watch a movie called "The Midnight Express" (look it up if you don't know it.) This was done to show us what could possibly happen if we messed up in a bloc nation and trust me when I say not a single one of us did. Why? Fear...

I was 15 then and got the message. So am I to think a few kids far older than I was then couldn't figure this message out?

You sir are correct when you say it is confusing.

[BHM]

Originally Posted by mister pc

at this point, im not complaining about the government of Iran. Im complaining about the fact that apparently no one on this board is on the side of the American prisoners. Everything i post in their defense gets the thumbs down. Posts defending Iran's right to hold US citizens on bogus charges without due process gets thumbs up. Literally telling the imprisoned Americans "screw you" gets thumbs up. The Iranian government is breaking its own laws to hold our citizens captive without a trial, yet its arrogant for us to intercede and bring the US citizens home to their families. The captured Americans should "play by Iran's rules", even though Iran is disregarding its own code of justice in regards to their detention. Its really unbelievable to me that people are showing hostility toward captured Americans and taking up for Iran in this situation.

It is really simple PC. If you do not like the way Iran runs its country, then stay out of Iran. They had no business being in a country we are at war in and then crossing the border into a non-friendly country They took the risk and lost.

Now you expect Iran to behave nicely. You expect the US to go chasing after them. We have no right to go into Iran and get them. We do not have to feel sorry for them. They knew the risk. And I do not buy the accidental crossing story. Most people with any sense would have been no where in that area.

We do not wish them ill will. If I were allowed to drive in and pick them up, I would. I wish them the best but they put themselves in a bad bad situation.

Sorry that we disagree.

[blackadder]

This is why they were arrested and will probably be held for a long time:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/25/wo...litary.html?hp

This is also why any of you who might be brave enough to travel to certain countries should be careful on trips off the beaten path or near sensitive locations in other countries.

From their perspective you have no choice but to track Westerners and treat each one as a potential spy, because the US is sending spies everywhere, and without any real oversight from Congress or the White House.

So my advise is don't go hiking along any borders in the Middle East or any Central Asian country.

[Flipx99]

Originally Posted by blackadder

This is why they were arrested and will probably be held for a long time:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/25/wo...litary.html?hp

This is also why any of you who might be brave enough to travel to certain countries should be careful on trips off the beaten path or near sensitive locations in other countries.

From their perspective you have no choice but to track Westerners and treat each one as a potential spy, because the US is sending spies everywhere, and without any real oversight from Congress or the White House.

So my advise is don't go hiking along any borders in the Middle East or any Central Asian country.

"WASHINGTON — The top American commander in the Middle East has ordered a broad expansion of clandestine military activity in an effort to disrupt militant groups or counter threats in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia and other countries in the region, according to defense officials and military documents."


Surprised the article did not provide a map with pinpoint locations and photos of the operatives.

[RiverCitySaint]

Originally Posted by blackadder

This is why they were arrested and will probably be held for a long time:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/25/wo...litary.html?hp

This is also why any of you who might be brave enough to travel to certain countries should be careful on trips off the beaten path or near sensitive locations in other countries.

From their perspective you have no choice but to track Westerners and treat each one as a potential spy, because the US is sending spies everywhere, and without any real oversight from Congress or the White House.

So my advise is don't go hiking along any borders in the Middle East or any Central Asian country.

I believe this is the consensus across the board.

What happened to those kids is tragic, but I'll say again that I am not sure so many resources and, watch this... troops need to be committed to bail them out. They will be released eventually I'm sure, so let this be a standing warning to others who would dare to venture in to a WAR ZONE. Geez....