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Old 03-18-2012, 10:56 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by dtradin View Post
How Santorum could be preferable to Obama in any way unless you're a fundamentalist Christian is beyond me.

God Help us.
I hope he will in November and we can wave at Obama as he fades off in the sunset of American politics.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:20 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by 6stringslide View Post
Let put this in a way you might be able to understand. If there was a SCOTUS case the was 6string vs dtradin and I wanted the government to allow child abuse. That is something I am sure you would be against morally. So you would fight it with every thing you have...right?? The same goes for abortion on the right. My personal feeling is that abortion is murder, so there is no way I could ever support that. The contraceptive issue is more about forcing the taxpayer to pay for something you SHOULD buy for youself. If we are going to pay for contraceptives why stop there??...and why is just about women?? Why not tell the government to pay for drinks, dinner, the gas for your car so you can go pick up the person you want to have sex with, and for all the poor men who the republicans are forcing to do without condoms, let's pick up the tab on those as well. This is stupid and it is more proof that the liberals want a nanny state. I'll admit I have never heard of the term trans-vaginal ultrasound testing so I had to look it up. I can tell you that when my ex wife was pregnant my insurance paid for this and it was our choice to get it. Now if a woman wants an abortion I would think it would be required to see how far along the pregnancy is, but I take it you think that is a bad thing?
I don't think insurance should pay for condoms or drinks, but I think healthcare includes contraceptives. Whether insurance pays for it or not, it's none of your business and I don't care what you believe regarding abortion and murder. It's your opinion and this, until further notice, is a free country where you and I are free to disagree about what your religion tells you and me mine.

Your ignorance and arrogance and outright hypocrisy is outstanding, however. You don't know what trans-vaginal ultrasound is, but you support the government mandating it because it "might" help ascertain gestation. Wow. You hate government mandated healthcare except when it suits your own PERSONAL desire to inflict your religious beliefs on others. You don't even care that a woman could be forced to undergo an invasive procedure at her expense while being forced to watch a fetal heart monitor all at the prescription of right wing fundamentalist legislators, but you believe the individual mandate is un-constitutional.

As for the idiotic analogy of child abuse and whether I would fight it or not, it's beneath the dignity of this forum to properly respond so I'll just say that abuse is abuse. And, whatever is inside the contents of a woman's womb is her business whether you like it or not. So keep up your moralistic hypocrisy as long as it suits your religious views. I'm sure Jesus is on board with whatever lies, deceit and conniving immoral acts it might take as long as in the end you get your way and are convinced it's right.

Clearly, you're a Santorum voter.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:37 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by dtradin View Post
And, btw, anti-abortion has not "always been the stance of the right." It's been since about 1980 when the Republicans adopted the fundamentalists to offset the demise of their power that this fervor has grown. There are books you could read.
Well, to be fair, until Roe v Wade was decided in 1973, abortion was not a national issue.
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:00 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by yuyi64 View Post
No, it simply means he might represent the primary voters in those states, not necessarily the GOP. Do you do realize that in most states (including the ones you cited) significantly less than half of all registered Republican voters have voted in the primaries or will be voting in an upcoming primary? The everwhelming majority of GOP voters that haven't bothered to vote in the primaries will be voting in the general election because they want to see Obama ousted, and most of those voters would rather see Romney run against Obama rather than Santorum. You can put up all the scary bogeymen you like now in a lame attempt to paint the GOP with your chosen brush, but in the end Santorum will not be the GOP nominee for President. All you have to do is look at the milquetoast candidates the GOP chose before and after Bush 43 (Dole and McCain) to realize that a Christian fundamentalist is not going to get the GOP nomination.
You're addressing separate issues. Romney is still most likely to win the nomination thanks to his blue state appeal, electability edge, and larger campaign coffers. He doesn't, however, have the support of a majority of Republicans in most traditional red states.

Santorum has been polling around 30% in recent national registered, not likely or primary, Republican voter polls. Limiting those polls to red state Republicans would push Santorum ahead of Romney, especially in the south. That shouldn't be surprising since the Southern GOP has become increasingly dominated by socially conservative Christians who aren't prone to support a former moderate like Romney.

With the GOP trending towards a regional rural/Southern party it's hard to argue that the candidate with wins in the big cities and blue states is a better representative of the base.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:48 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by dtradin View Post
I don't think insurance should pay for condoms or drinks, but I think healthcare includes contraceptives. Whether insurance pays for it or not, it's none of your business and I don't care what you believe regarding abortion and murder. It's your opinion and this, until further notice, is a free country where you and I are free to disagree about what your religion tells you and me mine.

Your ignorance and arrogance and outright hypocrisy is outstanding, however. You don't know what trans-vaginal ultrasound is, but you support the government mandating it because it "might" help ascertain gestation. Wow. You hate government mandated healthcare except when it suits your own PERSONAL desire to inflict your religious beliefs on others. You don't even care that a woman could be forced to undergo an invasive procedure at her expense while being forced to watch a fetal heart monitor all at the prescription of right wing fundamentalist legislators, but you believe the individual mandate is un-constitutional.

As for the idiotic analogy of child abuse and whether I would fight it or not, it's beneath the dignity of this forum to properly respond so I'll just say that abuse is abuse. And, whatever is inside the contents of a woman's womb is her business whether you like it or not. So keep up your moralistic hypocrisy as long as it suits your religious views. I'm sure Jesus is on board with whatever lies, deceit and conniving immoral acts it might take as long as in the end you get your way and are convinced it's right.

Clearly, you're a Santorum voter.
I won't step down to the level you are on. You can always tell when a liberal is losing a argument...thats the time when the name calling starts. Keep it classy dtradin
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:48 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6stringslide View Post
I won't step down to the level you are on. You can always tell when a liberal is losing a argument...thats the time when the name calling starts. Keep it classy dtradin
You can always tell when a Faux-con is in an argument, they make so little sense, the only rational thing to do is mock them.

Stay funny, 6string
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:56 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6stringslide View Post
There are some on the right whose religon is against contraception, but more that feel that government has no business paying for it.
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Originally Posted by 6stringslide View Post
. The contraceptive issue is more about forcing the taxpayer to pay for something you SHOULD buy for youself. If we are going to pay for contraceptives why stop there??...and why is just about women??
Please, please, please tell me where in the recent contraceptive debate where it was an issue about tax-payer funded birth control pills.

You won't be able to, because that wasn't what the issue was about. At all. And the fact that you've insisted on it multiple times means that you really are ignorant on the issue.

Please don't mistake this for name-calling or bomb-throwing. I'm simply pointing out a truth - you have shown, multiple times, that you do not have a grasp on the issue at hand.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:53 PM   #50
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You can always tell when a liberal is losing a argument...thats the time when the name calling starts.
You can always tell when someone with an extremely weak argument realizes they are out of their league, for they start to throw generalizations, labels, and insults around like they're spraying machine gun fire randomly at the first hint of danger, then they back out under the cover of "keeping it civil."
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:58 PM   #51
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Please, please, please tell me where in the recent contraceptive debate where it was an issue about tax-payer funded birth control pills.

You won't be able to, because that wasn't what the issue was about. At all. And the fact that you've insisted on it multiple times means that you really are ignorant on the issue.

Please don't mistake this for name-calling or bomb-throwing. I'm simply pointing out a truth - you have shown, multiple times, that you do not have a grasp on the issue at hand.

Let me say this....if you liberal guys can read... THIS IS WHAT THE DEBATE IS ABOUT... WHO PAYS FOR IT. If you don't get that there is nothing anyone can do to help you. You wanted the proof here is just one article about it...but I guess us conservatives are just too damn stupid to understand it....right???

Controversy over birth control roils on- MSN Money
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:13 PM   #52
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Let me say this....if you liberal guys can read... THIS IS WHAT THE DEBATE IS ABOUT... WHO PAYS FOR IT. If you don't get that there is nothing anyone can do to help you. You wanted the proof here is just one article about it...but I guess us conservatives are just too damn stupid to understand it....right???

Controversy over birth control roils on- MSN Money
Where in that article does it say that taxpayers have to pay for birth control?

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The contraceptive issue is more about forcing the taxpayer to pay for something you SHOULD buy for youself.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:03 PM   #53
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I could say the same about anti fact anti liberty liberals.
Hmmmm.

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I don't need the government stepping into my business to manage my health care or demand that I pay for something that you should buy yourself.


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This is stupid and it is more proof that the liberals want a nanny state.
You mean where the government mandates what medical procedures we get and who pays for it?

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I'll admit I have never heard of the term trans-vaginal ultrasound testing so I had to look it up.
Completely out of touch with the technical side of the debate, but unafraid to offer an opinion....

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I can tell you that when my ex wife was pregnant my insurance paid for this and it was our choice to get it.

Now if a woman wants an abortion I would think it would be required
I think we all get it.


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Let me say this....if you liberal guys can read... THIS IS WHAT THE DEBATE IS ABOUT... WHO PAYS FOR IT. If you don't get that there is nothing anyone can do to help you. You wanted the proof here is just one article about it...but I guess us conservatives are just too damn stupid to understand it....right??]
Only some of them.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:35 PM   #54
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I am a conservative but i am so sick of the extreme nuts with trans vaginal ultrasound thinking that is ok. What the heck has happened to the freaking party. Also what has happened to a sensible democratic party.

All of us here can pretty much agree that we wouldn't want to be mean to anyone. I don't think anyone here minds paying taxes for soldiers, police officers, teachers, helping the indigent etc.... So how in the world did we all get marketed to pick sides and be so polarizing. A lot on here argue and I have been guilty of it as well but I just wish we had some politician who wasn't a complete egomaniac, which you have to be to run for office now, so we can make some sort of progress.

Like No Child Left Behind. It is a big government solution to bring schools performance up but it failed horribly. Teachers became worried about their jobs and started teaching the biased test to the students. Government dictated what teachers should be teaching and it hindered everything while becoming a big government program and over spent. This is a topic that should be debated in a calm manner but politicians just say oh that program was a failure and you supported it xyz candidate while laughing it up and the drone audience laughs it up too yet they have no clue what it means. As George Carlin said "No one seems to notice and no one seems to care"
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:19 AM   #55
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My biggest problem with the Christian Conservative base is, as much as the Bible teaches peace and love, they're the first ones to bang the war drum (i.e. Santorum and Iran). Always willing to send our boys off for 3 tours of duty in some cases. Neo-conservatism is destroying the Republican Party.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:17 AM   #56
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I've lived in Louisiana my whole life so I've known and interacted with plenty of Republicans. I never claimed that he represented all Republicans, just the socially conservative Christian base.

Santorum is leading Romney in the most recent LA poll (not enough to forecast a victory) and outside of Gingrich's home turf has swept the traditional red state primaries. He wouldn't be winning states if he didn't represent a larger portion of the traditional GOP base than Romney. You can't frame him as a fringe kook or aberration when he's the base's candidate of choice.
It is always the fringe left and right that are more active in the primary process than the middle and that is the group that gets behind "their guy" and thus the explanation for Santorum. This far from the base or McCain, you know, the republican that could work with democrats and would cross the aisle, wouldn't have been the candidate in '08.
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