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Old 02-23-2012, 08:39 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by mister pc View Post
In what specific ways did the government kill choice and freewill for you?
When a child in N.C. could not bring a bagged lunch to school.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:05 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by mr.t View Post
When a child in N.C. could not bring a bagged lunch to school.
You are talking about this incident, which has recently made the rounds in the blogosphere.
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Critics see gov't meddling in school lunch swap | CharlotteObserver.com & The Charlotte Observer Newspaper

The cafeteria details are true, but rather than an example of government "lunch bag police" overruling a family, it's an embarrassing lapse by a teacher, Hoke County Schools Assistant Superintendent Bob Barnes said Thursday.

The girl's teacher should have handed the child a carton of milk to round out the turkey-and-cheese sandwich and banana she brought from home. Instead, the teacher erred by telling the tyke to get a cafeteria lunch, Barnes said.

"We do not go over and stare down every child's lunch," Barnes said. "If you looked at the lunch the child had, I'd love to have that lunch today. However, there are occasions that kids bring lunches that aren't that complete, and that's why we try to supplement them with the things that they need to make it a complete lunch."

Read more here: Critics see gov't meddling in school lunch swap | CharlotteObserver.com & The Charlotte Observer Newspaper
So what we have here is a state run initiative (emphasis mine) to ensure that elementary school kids get decent nutrition for lunch. In this case the child had a healthy lunch and it was mistakenly substituted for a cafeteria lunch. The school admits the teacher made a mistake in this situation. The program is designed to give young children proper nutrition when they show up with a bagged lunch consisting of Doritos, Snickers bar, and a Coke. In this case the kid had a proper lunch and the teacher erred by telling the kid to get a cafeteria lunch.

Again this is a state run program, not federal. I am only pointing this out because the anti-government involvement crowd usually clamors for more decisions to be made on a state level. Even still, doesn't it seem like a little bit of hyperbole for you to say that the government killed the American Dream because some kid in NC was made to eat a cafeteria lunch one day at school?
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:25 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by El Caliente View Post
I wonder if the decline in upward mobility is also due to people going the entrepreneur route rather than work for someone.
IDK. I think the word entrepreneur gets tossed about too often. Most people who've gone to work for themselves of late have done so due to the lack of a real job. I hardly want to use the term "entrepreneur" to describe a 50 yr old unemployed engineer who's gone to work as a contractor with a used street sweeper cleaning parking lots at the mall.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.t View Post
Apparently the American dream to bring a bagged lunch to school is dead in some states. I think that my kids, and grandchildren will have trouble realizing our dream because they will have to be taxed at a higher rate than me or my dad, or grandad. Our country is going down the path of ruin. IMHO
You, your dad and grand dad all paid higher taxes than kids will today. And, if you and your dad had voted differently, I suspect the last 30 years of too little taxes being paid by the top 1 or 2% might have left the country with a healthier outlook.

Personally, I blame the people your age and your dad's age for voting in the people who cut taxes, spent money and refused to balance the budget when times were good in favor of kicking that can onto my head and that of my kid.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by dtradin View Post
I think Adams would be appalled by the fact that upward mobility has died and that those born lucky or into good families can get fabulously wealthy while your typical hard working middle class family struggles to get by. Adams was also assuming that your work would be rewarded and that the fruits of your labor wouldn't be squeezed from your dying soul by every corporation, boss or employer so that there was no margin left in your wage for your own enjoyment.

Whenever I hear "conservatives" whining about earned success or equating taxation to theft and a loss of freedom, it makes me instantly wonder how much money they make and if they're even paying any sizable amount in federal income tax. Somehow, it seems most of the whining comes from those who are receiving the EITC and paying nothing into the system.
I only wish I could claim the earned income credit, in fact I have before but that time has long passed me by.
While you hear the "conservatives" whining about over taxation being a loss of freeddom and that bothers you, I have yet to see the rule that stops liberals from offering to pay a few hundred extra in to the fed each year. I mean I hear that the left is really the side that cares about this country then I say by all means step up and donate all you care to give to help Washington out.
So DT can we count you in for a few hundred extra to help the cause?
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:24 AM   #34
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Obviously other than than the fact that dtradin is wrong (double obvious) the working man has put more stress on the more proffesional side of business.due to the fact that the steady average working salary has increacreased along with artificial inflation. Men don't just go into business to start their own corporation or monopoply, but rather just to make a living. Only the one percent actually strive to be the one percent who rule the enonomic ******** as it exists today. its the reason why EVERY monopolistic.coporate machine can be traced back to the same people. A very real paradigm shift is needed to correct the foundations of this economy, one that focuses on innovation, not continuous profit generation. This is not communism.. this is earned by wellbeing of the nation state which supports the masses.. as intended by our fore fathers
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:44 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
The American dream isn't dead for all but it isn't what many of us were told it was.

Typical modern story:

I recently signed a bid at work for Journeyman Mechanic (It pays $1.70 more than what I make now).

The boss got upset and asked me why. Said that they need me where I am.

I was prepared for him. I showed him my first (two week) paycheck after they let me run my own shift in May 1997 it was somewhere around $1,400. Then I showed him the first paycheck of February 1998. It was a little over $1,600. Then I showed him my first paycheck of February 2012 (I make $9 more per hour than in 1997) it was $1,500. Fifteen years later and I bring home about the same money. In that time I have earned an Associates, a Bachelors and a Masters degree in management for what amounts to $0 raise over 15 years. All of the "benefits" that were paid by the company in 1997-98 now cost me about $9 per hour. Funny how that works out.

Everything costs a lot more now than it did 15 years ago but my paycheck is exactly the same.

Hard work doesn't pay
Education doesn't pay (It costs a lot of money)

My 401k is worth over $100,000 less than I have contributed over those 15 years.

My house is worth the same now as it was 9 years ago when I bought it despite over $50,000 worth of repairs and upgrades.

The dream is there but it isn't what we thought it was.

My Grandfather lived it. Found a job with Cosden oil and bought as much company stock as the company matching plan allowed. One day the stock price hit a magic number and he told his broker to sell. The next day he was on his way to his home town to live out his days. Try that now and the company you work for will find a way to steal your money.

I used to tell kids to either become an engineer or go to medical school. Now engineering is being outsourced and soon technology will make medical school a waste of time and money too but for now its safe. Your best bet is to invent something and hope that somebody else hasn't already patented it if you want to make money.
I agree.

I believe the dream is different for all of us. I would like to live in a country where all interests are represented equally in government, and where that government is small and non-intrusive. I have no use for being told who I can marry, or what to do with my body. Where equal opportunity for advancement exists for all.

I guess it isn't really the "American Dream" if your eventual goal is living in a small Caribbean or South Pacific island nation with no or minimal debt. Honestly, if I could persuade my wife and son I'd pack my bags tomorrow.

Here's one strong possibility:

http://www.niueisland.com/
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:31 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by dtradin View Post
You, your dad and grand dad all paid higher taxes than kids will today. And, if you and your dad had voted differently, I suspect the last 30 years of too little taxes being paid by the top 1 or 2% might have left the country with a healthier outlook.

Personally, I blame the people your age and your dad's age for voting in the people who cut taxes, spent money and refused to balance the budget when times were good in favor of kicking that can onto my head and that of my kid.
I know pass the blame to someone else. A typical Obama mantra. I pay taxes. Why don't you blame Bush Jr. and Obama, they have piled more debt than all the others put together. That's who I blame. My Dad's generation made this country great. Whiners like you are the problem. Gimme, Gimme, Gimme. Take from someone else. You sound like one of my 7th graders who can't get their way or is tying to wiggle theirselves out of a problem. We have more takers and sponges now than we ever had. That my whining friend is the problem.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:57 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Stilts View Post
Obviously other than than the fact that dtradin is wrong (double obvious) the working man has put more stress on the more proffesional side of business.due to the fact that the steady average working salary has increacreased along with artificial inflation. Men don't just go into business to start their own corporation or monopoply, but rather just to make a living. Only the one percent actually strive to be the one percent who rule the enonomic ******** as it exists today. its the reason why EVERY monopolistic.coporate machine can be traced back to the same people. A very real paradigm shift is needed to correct the foundations of this economy, one that focuses on innovation, not continuous profit generation. This is not communism.. this is earned by wellbeing of the nation state which supports the masses.. as intended by our fore fathers
In English, please? Working wages have been stagnant for decades in real terms.

Whatever.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:58 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by dtradin View Post
IDK. I think the word entrepreneur gets tossed about too often. Most people who've gone to work for themselves of late have done so due to the lack of a real job. I hardly want to use the term "entrepreneur" to describe a 50 yr old unemployed engineer who's gone to work as a contractor with a used street sweeper cleaning parking lots at the mall.

True, but I wonder if we can get a number (over the same time period since upward mobility has been stagnated) that tells us how many new businesses have been started, and how many people have rather gone and worked for themselves. That would be very telling as to why the lack of upward mobility is present.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:01 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by mr.t View Post
I know pass the blame to someone else. A typical Obama mantra. I pay taxes. Why don't you blame Bush Jr. and Obama, they have piled more debt than all the others put together. That's who I blame. My Dad's generation made this country great. Whiners like you are the problem. Gimme, Gimme, Gimme. Take from someone else. You sound like one of my 7th graders who can't get their way or is tying to wiggle theirselves out of a problem. We have more takers and sponges now than we ever had. That my whining friend is the problem.

I don't do this often, but I will defend dtradin on this. He isn't a whiner. He has other ideas than I do on how to get this country up and running, but his ideas don't always = raising taxes. I think if you were to ask him (he has even said) he is more don't tread on me, and he believes there are reasons for the government to be involved and not involved in our business. Sounds like a reasonable person to me.

I am fiscally conservative, and I believe in most cases he makes sense.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:04 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by mr.t View Post
I know pass the blame to someone else. A typical Obama mantra. I pay taxes. Why don't you blame Bush Jr. and Obama, they have piled more debt than all the others put together. That's who I blame. My Dad's generation made this country great. Whiners like you are the problem. Gimme, Gimme, Gimme. Take from someone else. You sound like one of my 7th graders who can't get their way or is tying to wiggle theirselves out of a problem. We have more takers and sponges now than we ever had. That my whining friend is the problem.
A 7th grade teacher whining about over taxation to a person who directly employs 8 people and indirectly another couple dozen is pretty rich. Your dad's generation may have made the country great, but they left us with a pile of stink because they elected people who would spend money faster than they collected it and kicked the can down the road for their own benefit. He's sucking SS and Medicare that I pay for and that they set up and didn't fund. His generation elected Reagan who was the first big debt president and you're whining about Obama.

The takers and sponges are the ones who bled us dry for their own benefit and left us with the mess. That, my whining friend, is you and your dad's generation. But, you're welcome. I'm happy to pay my share so the old, greedy and short sighted who came before don't have to spend their glory days in the street.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:49 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by dtradin View Post
A 7th grade teacher whining about over taxation to a person who directly employs 8 people and indirectly another couple dozen is pretty rich. Your dad's generation may have made the country great, but they left us with a pile of stink because they elected people who would spend money faster than they collected it and kicked the can down the road for their own benefit. He's sucking SS and Medicare that I pay for and that they set up and didn't fund. His generation elected Reagan who was the first big debt president and you're whining about Obama.

The takers and sponges are the ones who bled us dry for their own benefit and left us with the mess. That, my whining friend, is you and your dad's generation. But, you're welcome. I'm happy to pay my share so the old, greedy and short sighted who came before don't have to spend their glory days in the street.
So slam my job liberal. You employ 8 people.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by mr.t View Post
So slam my job liberal. You employ 8 people.
I have reread that three times... I still dont see a slam...
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