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Old 01-11-2017, 12:35 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by JimEverett View Post
Okay. So you think CNN, the New York Times, and others - have it wrong? What is the evidence for that?
I don't think they have anything wrong. They say that BF claims the stuff they publish is the real document. Nothing in the initial reports is specific to that possible/probable forged memo. It provides a convenient deflection from prior reporting that didn't even traffic in any of the details or crap in what is probably not a legit document. The mentions by CNN and NYT both say BF "claims" it's the document, but that they are not corroborating that document's authenticity.

The authenticity of the later published BF "supposed" leaked document, doesn't have any bearing on earlier real articles about a real document that apparently has not been released or published or corroborated by any MSM news source. All of the MSM sources mentioning the BF "document" explicitly point out that they have not corroborated or confirmed its accuracy. The confirmed and corroborated accuracy of the two page document is not impugned by a non-MSM source putting out a click bait long document later.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:37 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEverett View Post
Context? Aren't you the one claiming that the Buzzfeed publication has nothing to do with this story?
We don't know that the document Buzzfeed published is the actual document that the story references. Clearly, Buzzfeed wants people to think it is, because their brand is dying and they are desperate for some notoriety.

This is the problem with the Buzzfeeds and Brietbarts of the world, because they have no scruples or standards they can just release whatever they want without an examination of their ethical responsiblity. Now it's out there and the real media kind of has no choice but to report on it. Truth be told, now that I better understand what the original story is all about, I think the Buzzfeed report is doing a real disservice to the greater story because it gives Trump impetus to just dismiss it all as "fake news". CNN is not fake news.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:48 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbreath34 View Post
I don't think they have anything wrong. They say that BF claims the stuff they publish is the real document. Nothing in the initial reports is specific to that possible/probable forged memo. It provides a convenient deflection from prior reporting that didn't even traffic in any of the details or crap in what is probably not a legit document. The mentions by CNN and NYT both say BF "claims" it's the document, but that they are not corroborating that document's authenticity.

The authenticity of the later published BF "supposed" leaked document, doesn't have any bearing on earlier real articles about a real document that apparently has not been released or published or corroborated by any MSM news source. All of the MSM sources mentioning the BF "document" explicitly point out that they have not corroborated or confirmed its accuracy. The confirmed and corroborated accuracy of the two page document is not impugned by a non-MSM source putting out a click bait long document later.
CNN reports that the 2 page classified report is a summary of the memos that Bzzfeed published. Again, to the link you post in the OP:
Intel chiefs presented Trump with claims of Russian efforts to compromise him - CNNPolitics.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNN
CNN has reviewed a 35-page compilation of the memos, from which the two-page synopsis was drawn. The memos have since been published by Buzzfeed.
The New York Times has also referenced that the memos Buzzfeed published is the substance of the 2 page report:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/u...=top-news&_r=0

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkTimes
• The president and president-elect were given a two-page report, but there is a much longer document on BuzzFeed. What’s the difference?

BuzzFeed made the controversial decision to publish the opposition research memos in full, despite the fact that their reporters had not confirmed or disproved the claims in them. The two-page document is a summary of the claims in the series of memos.
I don;t understand how you can say they are not wrong and at the same time say the classified report is not a summary of the memos Buzzfeed published.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:49 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by retrobanana View Post
Trump's making too many enemies. People say "oh the press doesn't matter, they're irrelevant" but every time he calls out a reporter in a press conference they're going to pull in their circle tighter and tighter and concert their efforts. They'll have him tied up in crap like this every single day he's in office until it wears him out.
Death by 1000 cuts.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:01 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by saintmdterps View Post
Death by 1000 cuts.
It's a risky strategy. Attention like this is what an NPD lives for. He'll never get tired of it. He's psychologically incapable of getting tired of it.

However, he is only mortal. Eventually he has to physically wear down. Especially if every press interaction begins and ends with "So, where's your tax returns?"
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:01 PM   #171
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Two U.S. officials told NBC News that materials prepared for Trump during last week's intelligence briefing included damaging allegations — unverified by American intelligence agencies — about his dealings with the Russians.

A 35-page dossier published by BuzzFeed on Tuesday includes claims that the Russian government has been cultivating, supporting and assisting Trump for five years — even obtaining compromising information in an effort to blackmail him. The document, which was not prepared by the U.S. government, contains obvious errors.

Officials prepared a two-page summary of the dossier, which was originally generated as part of opposition research by anti-Trump Republicans and then shopped by Democrats. The officials said the summary was generated for Trump's briefing Friday at Trump Tower in New York.

Multiple officials say that the summary was included in the material prepared for the briefers, but the senior official told NBC News that the briefing was oral and no actual documents were left with the Trump team in New York. During the briefing, the president-elect was not briefed on the contents of the summary .

"Intel and law enforcement officials agree that none of the investigations have found any conclusive or direct link between Trump and the Russian government period," the senior official said.

According to the senior official, the two-page summary about the unsubstantiated material made available to the briefers was to provide context, should they need it, to draw the distinction for Trump between analyzed intelligence and unvetted "disinformation."

The briefers also had available to them unvetted "disinformation" about the Clinton Foundation, although that was not orally shared with Trump.
Donald Trump Wasn't Told About Unverified Russia Dossier, Official Says - NBC News

I think there's a lot of dirt on Trump out there. Too much smoke regarding him and Putin. But, I also think the press is going to Wile Coyote themselves over a cliff because they go for sensationalism instead of the old boring financial stuff.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:09 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by JimEverett View Post
I don;t understand how you can say they are not wrong and at the same time say the classified report is not a summary of the memos Buzzfeed published.
Your very quotes, and what I was hearing on air as I was typing is that no one has confirmed the authenticity of the Buzz Feed documents, which came out AFTER, the reporting on the two page synopsis is the actual, real, valid longer document the 2 page synopsis refers too.

How many ways or times can this be said, they don't acknowledge or confirm the accuracy of what Buzz Feed released as authentic. The NYT didn't publish it because they could not confirm that the claims in the document, or the document itself accurately represented the information the agencies were talking about.

  1. You have the MSM breaking a story.
  2. A click bait site published a detailed document claiming it's the one the MSM said it had no access to or verification of the details of when presenting the initial story, but that the MSM had actually vetted and corroborated the leaked 2 page synopsis' authenticity.
  3. MSM stories update to say that the click bait site claims to have released the document, and in text right there in your quote the NYT casts doubts on its authenticity and suitability for reporting and on air Wolf Blitzer and others, and a linked article on CNN Money (which is the link in the updated version of the CNN article you're harping on) which calls the document into doubt.
None of this implies that anyone in MSM considers the click bait document to be anything other than "supposed" and regarded skeptically. They did not also publish the document or join the bandwagon, and even went out of their way to say that it's dubious. It is newsworthy, though, that some outlet is claiming to have the real thing, so they do what they should and report on it with a caveat.

None of this has anything to do with reports that came out before anyone on the planet claimed to be putting out the real longer document. The fact that after the original story BF opportunistically published what is probably a fake document is a distraction, but has no bearing on the substance of the summary of an actual document as yet not leaked.

It plays perfectly into the distraction game, but really it's not hard to see that it's impossible for the first reports to have been based on a document thought to be unavailable or incredible to MSM sources when a bad source later arrives and says "here's what we're now claiming is the holy grail".

Like the playbook on Deadspin in my analogy, it being a forgery or satire has no bearing on whether or not the theft of a playbook really happened.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:14 PM   #173
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The thing is, you don't even know where the Buzzfeed report came from, it could be from anywhere including GOP interests.

If the Empire had flooded the universe out with fake Death Star plans, it would've been a whole lot harder to tell what was the real thing.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:22 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbreath34 View Post
Your very quotes, and what I was hearing on air as I was typing is that no one has confirmed the authenticity of the Buzz Feed documents, which came out AFTER, the reporting on the two page synopsis is the actual, real, valid longer document the 2 page synopsis refers too.
How do the two quotes I posted say THAT? Both seem fairly standard declaratives that the memos Buzzfeed published were the basis for the classifed summary.
And I am not sure why you are hung up on the fact that Buzzfeed published the memos after the CNN story. The reports I have read seem pretty clear that the memos were rather well-known to reporters for months or more.

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Originally Posted by Galbreath34 View Post
How many ways or times can this be said, they don't acknowledge or confirm the accuracy of what Buzz Feed released as authentic. The NYT didn't publish it because they could not confirm that the claims in the document, or the document itself accurately represented the information the agencies were talking about.
Where does the New York Times say they did not publish the memos because they could not confirm that it was the basis for the classified summary?
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:25 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Taurus View Post
However, he is only mortal.
Are we sure about this?

How long before reports come out that he is a Reptilian?
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:27 PM   #176
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You guys are arguing past each other.

Some are saying that the BF document may or may not be the real dossier, so paying attention to the BF story might not be prudent.

However, CNN story that JE is pointing to says that the 2-page summary is a summary of the BF document. So either CNN is wrong -- it is not a summary of the document published by Buzzfeed, but it is is a summary of the dossier -- or they are saying that the BF document *is* the dossier. He is concentrating on the specific sentence "The memos have since been published by Buzzfeed." If that is true, CNN is claiming the BF documents are valid. If that is not true, then maybe they meant to say "Buzzfeed has since published what it claims are the memos in question; this has not been independently verified" but they condensed and got it wrong.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:27 PM   #177
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are we sure about this?

How long before reports come out that he is a reptilian?
oh kwa tangin wan
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:27 PM   #178
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Not sure how much more clear you can get than this to say that the New York Times is reporting that the memos published by Buzzfeed are exactly what the 2 page classified summary summarizes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkTimes
BuzzFeed News became the center of a swirling debate over journalistic ethics on Tuesday after its decision to publish a 35-page document carrying explosive, but unverified, allegations about ties between the Russian government and President-elect Donald J. Trump.

The document, a dossier prepared by a former British intelligence officer hired by Mr. Trump’s political opponents, had been circulating among high-ranking politicians and some journalists since the fall. Intelligence officials recently presented a two-page summary of the allegations to Mr. Trump and President Obama, CNN reported on Tuesday.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/b...mp-russia.html
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:28 PM   #179
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If Trump and Pence get sworn in on the 20th, is it possible and/or likely that Pence would pardon Trump? So far there are no allegations that Pence was involved, but it has been said that Trump surrogates were in contact with Russians. What if Pence is also involved? Could we have a double impeachment? If so, then would the House have to appoint a replacement?
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:29 PM   #180
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If Trump and Pence get sworn in on the 20th, is it possible and/or likely that Pence would pardon Trump? So far there are no allegations that Pence was involved, but it has been said that Trump surrogates were in contact with Russians. What if Pence is also involved? Could we have a double impeachment? If so, then would the House have to appoint a replacement?

The president can't be impeached for anything that happens before they are sworn into office.
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