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Old 04-17-2012, 12:29 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Boudro View Post
So you're one of those who think pay for performance=pay to injure.
Respectfully I think you're splitting hairs here, what are you really trying to say? If it can't be documented that player X received a specific amount of money for a specific play then the whole thing is bogus? Keep in mind that may very well exist.

You're really still in doubt after the GW tape?
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Boudro View Post
So you're one of those who think pay for performance=pay to injure.
Respectfully I think you're splitting hairs here, what are you really trying to say? If it can't be documented that player X received a specific amount of money for a specific play then the whole thing is bogus? Keep in mind that may very well exist.

You're really still in doubt after the GW tape?

Even "pay for performance" was/is against the rules by the way...
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:32 PM   #17
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Right, "obsessed", I'm sure the TP didn't cover anything about Vick in 07 right?

As the writer points out, several people involved have already admitted guilt and apologized, what exactly is Brees waiting for? I know he's hero-worshipped by Saints fans but at this point he's looking foolish...

Oh wait I forgot in the other post how it's clearly explained that Brees is outsmarting Goodell and the NFL.
What evidence of player involvement have you seen? I've "heard" of evidence that the NFL has yet to share. I heard a speech from Gregg Williams instructing players to target previous injuries. Is it wrong or "foolish" for the team's NFLPA rep to want to actually SEE some evidence of player involvement in some sort of a pay to injure program?
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:33 PM   #18
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Brees could work out a deal ensuring his grandkids will never have to worry about working and be participating in off-season workouts, instead he's doing this...if he wasn't making provocative statements this article wouldn't have been written, true?
You know, we have talked extensively on here about how we would defend the Falcons if the roles were reversed. The funny thing is do you really see Matt Ryan sticking up for the team the same way Brees is? This is a perfect example of some of the intangible qualities of leadership; qualities that help lead to championships. I guarantee the Saints' Front Office has a plan...this has been proven through out free agency. Remind me again what your front offices' plan for free agency was again?
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:34 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by DeathFromAbove View Post
Respectfully I think you're splitting hairs here, what are you really trying to say? If it can't be documented that player X received a specific amount of money for a specific play then the whole thing is bogus? Keep in mind that may very well exist.

You're really still in doubt after the GW tape?

Even "pay for performance" was/is against the rules by the way...
Yes they were against the rules. I am not going to debate that. I will debate the level of punishment that was issued to the Saints. It was a punishment that was leveled as if there was video evidence, as in on the field, that pointed to the Saints trying to purposefully trying to injure a player outside of the scope of what is acceptable in football.

You can not tell me that the falcons never went after Brees every game. You can not tell me they wanted to hit him so hard he left the game. That is football.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:36 PM   #20
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What evidence of player involvement have you seen? I've "heard" of evidence that the NFL has yet to share. I heard a speech from Gregg Williams instructing players to target previous injuries. Is it wrong or "foolish" for the team's NFLPA rep to want to actually SEE some evidence of player involvement in some sort of a pay to injure program?
What would you consider evidence? Obviously there were no checks written. Are you suggesting that no money was ever paid out? Then what did Gregg Williams admit to doing?
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:39 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by RacerRyan15x View Post
You know, we have talked extensively on here about how we would defend the Falcons if the roles were reversed. The funny thing is do you really see Matt Ryan sticking up for the team the same way Brees is? This is a perfect example of some of the intangible qualities of leadership; qualities that help lead to championships. I guarantee the Saints' Front Office has a plan...this has been proven through out free agency. Remind me again what your front offices' plan for free agency was again?
If this really happened I certainly never saw the topics...what I've seen on here since this all started is groupthink at its worst, any time a SAINTS fan even suggests all the anger and frustration is misplaced he's thumbed down relentlessly.

First it was flat-out denial, then it was all Williams, then it was Goodell, then Pamphilon...the excuses and villains keep changing.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:43 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by DeathFromAbove View Post
If this really happened I certainly never saw the topics...what I've seen on here since this all started is groupthink at its worst, any time a SAINTS fan even suggests all the anger and frustration is misplaced he's thumbed down relentlessly.

First it was flat-out denial, then it was all Williams, then it was Goodell, then Pamphilon...the excuses and villains keep changing.
While I am not part of the crowd that takes part in the sky is falling mentality...I do agree that it is only fair to release the evidence. Most people on here just want to see what this evidence the Nfl has that is so incriminating...a tape of Gregg Williams' pregame speech is nowhere near enough to justify the punishment.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:43 PM   #23
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What would you consider evidence? Obviously there were no checks written. Are you suggesting that no money was ever paid out? Then what did Gregg Williams admit to doing?
Don't fool yourself into thinking this story has been talked about ad-nauseum because of a pay-for-PERFORMANCE program. You think Payton was suspended an entire YEAR because some cash was being tossed around the locker room for interceptions and sacks, or even because he lied about it?

Brees wants to see evidence of this pay to injure program prior to any suspensions. As the team's player rep, I'd expect nothing less.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:43 PM   #24
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Do people even realize this is the view of the NFLPA who represents ALL players, those who were allegedly targeted and those that allegedly did the targeting. Yet everyone wants to make it about Drew Brees. If the NFLPA says this evidence hasnt been provided or doesnt exist I dont know why so many have a problem believing it. Dont forget Goodell asked the union to be involved, but he just wanted them to take his word for it that what he said was the truth. The union isnt just looking out for Saints players, if this truly went down the way Goodell says, they will want to see the offenders punished. I have no doubt they are 100% neutral in all this, but they want to see proof that Goodell's allegations are true. And the NFL refuses to show them anything that shows there was a pay for injury system, this basically tells me such evidence doesnt exist.

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What would you consider evidence? Obviously there were no checks written. Are you suggesting that no money was ever paid out? Then what did Gregg Williams admit to doing?
Maybe the evidence that lead Goodell to arrive at the fact that we ran a pay for injury system as he has publicly claimed ? The union has said more than once no such evidence has been provided to them.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:50 PM   #25
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:05 PM   #26
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There is a big difference between "pay for play" and bounties. Why won't the NFL produce this alledged evidence that warrents player suspension? What is Goodell not sharing and why isn't he. I seriously do not think it was hard for the defense to go against what Williams was stating in the meeting before the playoff game against SF..or any game for that matter. If they truely followed his every remark, don't you think there would have been cart offs are injuries that took players out of the game? There weren't any. The NFCCG in '09 may have been the only game with "ONE" questionible hit on Favre. Remember, he missed no time because of it.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:08 PM   #27
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Do people even realize this is the view of the NFLPA who represents ALL players, those who were allegedly targeted and those that allegedly did the targeting. Yet everyone wants to make it about Drew Brees. If the NFLPA says this evidence hasnt been provided or doesnt exist I dont know why so many have a problem believing it. Dont forget Goodell asked the union to be involved, but he just wanted them to take his word for it that what he said was the truth. The union isnt just looking out for Saints players, if this truly went down the way Goodell says, they will want to see the offenders punished. I have no doubt they are 100% neutral in all this, but they want to see proof that Goodell's allegations are true. And the NFL refuses to show them anything that shows there was a pay for injury system, this basically tells me such evidence doesnt exist.



Maybe the evidence that lead Goodell to arrive at the fact that we ran a pay for injury system as he has publicly claimed ? The union has said more than once no such evidence has been provided to them.
If the NFLPA is truly 100% neutral in this then they would have had Mr Brees recuse himself and proceeded with the meetings. Right or wrong Brees has a vested interest in a specific outcome from all of this.

Im sorry but he cant be neutral.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:27 PM   #28
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The man has a point. Drew, as was pointed out by the NFLPA president, was there (in NY) for other business. The topic of Bounties came up and, personally, I wish that Drew had made no comment whatsoever.

It does lean towards a real conflict if he's to be representing all players, including players who reportedly had bounties issued on them. Aaron Rogers and Cam Newton are two active players that Drew represents in his NFLPA capacity.

So how can you reconcile being an advocate of player interests and yet still deny that there was ever a bounty system?

It's hard to be both.
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