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Old 01-01-2017, 08:37 PM   #61
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Fire Payton...then what??? If you're going to do something that foolish then you better convince Jon Gruden to come out of the MNF commentating booth or something because nobody else is available in my mind that would make any sense...If our problems were on the offensive side of the ball then I'd be on board. The title of the thread maybe should have read Payton should have no say on defensive personnel, etc. But then again, what defensive player besides maybe Nincovich has he let go and they became a star somewhere else. Yes, we've missed on draft picks but who hasn't . The Saints have made progress in getting better on defense besides salary cap hell the past few years. Yeah let's ruin that by letting go of the best coach we've ever had, make Drew Brees and our 3 stud receivers learn a new offense and still have to address what lingering issues the defense has...makes perfect sense *sarcasm off*
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:38 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Eman5805 View Post
How did you completely miss the point of his post? Who do you want to replace Payton?

My guess is your response will be something like "Anyone else" or something an equally good cop out.

I'm not opposed to moving on from Payton. But no one is having a discussion on who to get instead.

I'll even start it off, how about John Harbaugh? Or do I mean Jim? Whoever is at Michigan.
This is a complete straw man. Like people were afraid to move on from Haslett because it was so risky.

The key here has been Brees. I'm way more concerned who succeeds Brees, especially if we could keep Charmichael as OC assuming a new HC would want to keep the offense in place. I would. Brees and Charmichael can run that just fine.

We need everything else re-vamped.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:39 PM   #63
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We do not want to be a NY-style fan base. Not who we are.
That is why I said; I have a problem with some of his decisions with his refusal to get rid of 3 position coaches, not get rid of Payton. Not this year. After next year, who knows.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:41 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Eman5805 View Post
Why does none of threads like this done even a modicum of research and suggested a replacement?

I'm not committed to Payton, but "And then what?" needs to be a part of any serious discussion, I feel.
I certainly see your point, but come on. If we lose Payton what are we really losing? we can find just about anybody to get us to 7-9. It's been 3 years now and I'm done ignoring the obvious. I appreciate his contributions but after 3 losing seasons it might be time for him to kick rocks.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:41 PM   #65
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You are correct. You are not a mathemetician, nor do you even remotely know me, or how old I am. To then insinuate there is something wrong with my perspective, (22 years old, however that relates) I would say you are probably, what, 5?
Look under your user name. It says that you are 22. If you are in fact 22, you physically could not be a fan since inception.

Otherwise, you probably want to ease up on the misplaced indignation and insult attempts.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:44 PM   #66
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Third season in a row where the "it doesn't matter Vanilla" preseason set the outcome for the regular season...
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:45 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by crosswatt View Post
Look under your user name. It says that you are 22. If you are in fact 22, you physically could not be a fan since inception.

Otherwise, you probably want to ease up on the misplaced indignation and insult attempts.
That is not correct and I am not certain on how to update it. But before you just go jumping up and down, feeling all high and mighty about what you read/see on an internet site (do not make assumptions everything you read on the internet), people do make mistakes. I did. So there.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:46 PM   #68
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I'm amazed. Yes, we love him. Yes he won one Super Bowl. But it MUST be obvious to even the most casual observer that he simply is NEVER going to be successful as a Head Coach here in New Orleans again.

All the things that make great HEAD coaches - good personnel decisions, getting the most out of players, keeping players focused, keeping great players happy, developing and keeping team chemistry, keeping the team focused and motivated to finish games and seasons - just to name a few - have been utterly lacking ever since Payton came back from his suspension.

Yes he's still a GREAT play caller - but he has been poor at best as a Head Coach for several years. He may go somewhere else and be very successful as a head man, but he doesn't have IT here and now.

Something happened to him during that suspension. He lost something. This team was not the same from that point forward and they will continue to be MEDIOCRE as long as he is here.

It seems obvious to me - and I don't know why the fans, the TV talking heads and others aren't screaming about it.

So, your thoughts?

I'm all in with you on this one but lets talk about what quality coach is out there?

I hear that Chip Kelly is unemployed...............so is Rex Ryan.........
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:53 PM   #69
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This is a complete straw man. Like people were afraid to move on from Haslett because it was so risky.

The key here has been Brees. I'm way more concerned who succeeds Brees, especially if we could keep Charmichael as OC assuming a new HC would want to keep the offense in place. I would. Brees and Charmichael can run that just fine.

We need everything else re-vamped.
If your implication is because there's no suitable replacements, just keep Payton, then you could not be more wrong. I'd be very open to moving on from Payton. In fact, I said last year another 7-9 season would put me on the outs with him. But the way this year broke and the young talent we've amassed has softened my stance.


But on that subject of post-Payton moves, why shouldn't we just make Carmichael the HC while we're at it? Would you be in favor of it? I wouldn't mind it. He's been around for a long time. So there might not be much of a drop off if anything. Certainly not in terms of the offense. But as for the kind of person he is? I know almost nothing about him, for as long as he's been on the team.

See this? It's part of a decent discussion. It's better than constant "Fire Payton" ad nauseum stuff you see. I'm just trying to get something constructive going here. It's easy to sit way back and be a critic when you're putting nothing at stake to be wrong about. It's all nice and safe for the two old Muppets in the balcony who complain at everything.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:55 PM   #70
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Living in northeast Ohio, being a lifelong saints fan, I've learned what a bad season is, what an average season is, and what a super bowl team looks like

If 7-9 is a down year, we are clearly doing something right.

Payton is coaching teams with limited talent. Our teams have a lot of unfulfilled potential but none of the teams over the past few seasons were talented enough to win a super bowl

Despite this, we are still just under .500. You don't fire someone that manages to milk a 7-9 record out of a lost season to begin with
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:56 PM   #71
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Now remove Brees from the equation and think what that 32-32 would be. Because across 2 of the three phases the cupboard has been bare for 3+ seasons.
You're just proving my point. Payton is responsible for the "Cupboard being bare." In addition to the terrible special teams and special teams coach. He's the highest paid coach in the NFL and needs to fire coaches if they aren't performing.

The Saints went 7-9 with a terrible defense when Payton was suspended--what is Payton doing that is special?

Keep Carmicheal as offensive coordinator and the rest of the offensive assistants. Bring in a defensive minded coach and let him bring in all of his assistants.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:59 PM   #72
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I will take coach Payton any day of the week. Maybe you think we should give Jeff Fisher a chance here. This team is close to winning again. A new coach and scheme will only set us back. I am willing to ride this Brees/Payton train until the wheels fall off. To me, the wheels still have lots of tread on them.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:01 PM   #73
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The simple fact that a team is rumored to want to "trade" for him must resonate with some. Not sure what the issues are with him (Too much power, no accountability for some on his staff, character over talent decision...) but if he can just figure it how to find the passion again he can be successful. Maybe a change is in order but the grass isn't always greener and all he has to do is to ask Parcells about that...
Or maybe he needs to kick Skylene out as she's been nothing but a cancer to our team.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:06 PM   #74
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How many of you would be upset if the following scenario unfolded?

Payton traded. Payton takes Vitt, McMahon, Johnson, and Lombardi with him.

Dennis Allen promoted to head coach. Carmichael, Glenn, and Roushar stay.
Allen hires Wade Phillips to be the DC.

To me, that's a win.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:07 PM   #75
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Everybody said he was a fool for keeping lutz. Idont see anyone complaining now.
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