This is why we moved up to get Ingram!

[EricC.]

Originally Posted by blackngoldmike

I don't understand the Ingram hate. The dude has been nothing but a pro since he got here. He made the most of his runs when the O-line was playing like wussies and did pretty good. I guess some of us understand the value of having a healthy backfield, while others think that Ingram is a bust if he didn't get 350 carries this year.

Ingram did exactly what the coaches expected of him and he did it well. They are better than us at this anyways.

Where's TCUDan when you need him!

It's not hate. It's what we gave up doesn't equal what got in return IMO. I don't dislike Ingram. I wanna make myself clear here. In a nutshell, to me, Ivory is twice as explosive, faster, breaks tackles better. I think the Saints gave up too much when they could have gotten a back in the 2nd round just as good, and have a 1st round pic next year. The rookie RB's this year picked in the later rounds have been just as, if not more, productive than Ingram. That is all.

[Wicket6]

Originally Posted by St. Widge

So, what is your point then? What does that have to do with whether Ingram was a good pick or if you can judge a pick in the first year?

seriously (i wasnt making a point, i was answering YOUR question)???? You can judge a PICK (so NOT the player) based on whether a player makes sense in value, fit, need etc. You stated it was stupid to judge a pick after 1 year, i disputed that based on the reasons given above. This was based on me saying ingram was a bad pick (not necessarily a bad player). This based on my opinion that ingram is a terrible fit, that the trade was bad value, that runningback in our offense dont have first round value regardless and that there was no need for a running back.

[St. Widge]

This one is pretty nice:



Mark Ingram first NFL regular season touchdown - YouTube

[blackngoldmike]

Originally Posted by EricC.

If if if if. Sure i think we should have drafted a RB. But not one that required giving up our 1st round pick in the next draft and our 2nd in the previous. Where does Ivory fit in your hypothetical situation??

That hypothetical situation is where we were at last year. The only difference was that a hobbled Reggie Bush was supposed to carry the load for us and he got injured. We were left with Julius Jones. Payton made it a point not to be in that situation again. He went up and grabbed the best running back in the draft without giving up a Falcon sized price to get him. I expect no less of our front office!

[King Stilts]

Originally Posted by EricC.

Wait, isn't this a garbage time TD in preseason. Kinda like Bell's garbage time runs?? Im not knocking Ingram's run, but, c'mon. You gotta have more than this.

Herpy der derp a tedillity dumb

[blasian]

Originally Posted by EricC.

Wait, isn't this a garbage time TD in preseason. Kinda like Bell's garbage time runs?? Im not knocking Ingram's run, but, c'mon. You gotta have more than this.

I'm not really caring about this particular run but Ingrams lower body strength, great balance, good hands, pass protection ability, and great burst is why Payton loves Ingram. If he had the patience and vision of PT, he would be really good, but hopefully it develops over time.

It's like people waiting for Ivory last season to develop more into an all around back instead of a bruiser. Oh, and not to mention staying healthy... I'm glad Ivory is getting his groove at the right time.

[St. Widge]

Originally Posted by Wicket6

seriously (i wasnt making a point, i was answering YOUR question)???? You can judge a PICK (so NOT the player) based on whether a player makes sense in value, fit, need etc. You stated it was stupid to judge a pick after 1 year, i disputed that based on the reasons given above. This was based on me saying ingram was a bad pick (not necessarily a bad player). This based on my opinion that ingram is a terrible fit, that the trade was bad value, that runningback in our offense dont have first round value regardless and that there was no need for a running back.

First, the problem is you can't judge if a player fits on your team unless you judge him as a player. Second, judging a draft pick solely on if it fits a need and/or drafting for need is just plain dumb. You simply have to give a player four or five years before you can tell if it was a good pick to take them where you took them. There is no other way to make that evaluation.

[blackngoldmike]

Originally Posted by Wicket6

seriously (i wasnt making a point, i was answering YOUR question)???? You can judge a PICK (so NOT the player) based on whether a player makes sense in value, fit, need etc. You stated it was stupid to judge a pick after 1 year, i disputed that based on the reasons given above. This was based on me saying ingram was a bad pick (not necessarily a bad player). This based on my opinion that ingram is a terrible fit, that the trade was bad value, that runningback in our offense dont have first round value regardless and that there was no need for a running back.

Again, I would rather have Ingram than those running backs. We are 13-3, due in large part to our running game. A running game which Ingram was a part of. Some of those other running backs are part of a 2 maybe 3 man rotation. Ingram is part of a 4 man rotation. When one man goes down, even if the injury is slight, we can easily sit that player and plug in another.

If you think that our front office would not pull the trigger again given the exact circumstances, than you are mistaken.

[Wicket6]

Originally Posted by St. Widge

First, the problem is you can't judge if a player fits on your team unless you judge him as a player. Second, judging a draft pick solely on if it fits a need and/or drafting for need is just plain dumb. You simply have to give a player four or five years before you can tell if it was a good pick to take them where you took them. There is no other way to make that evaluation.

you can judge what type of player someone is before seeing how he pans out

drafting someone who doesnt fit your offense/defense is plain dumb

and again, judging how well the process has been before you know how the player has turned out can and should be done.

[St. Widge]

I know there are more runs out there where Ingram shows first round ability, including the run where he injured his toe, but I'm not going to keep looking. Because I think the ones posted clearly show he has ability. Beyond that, Sean Payton, Mickey Loomis obviously thought he had first round ability. And, Sean Payton liked his ability enough to keep Chris Ivory inactive until Ingram got hurt. He also like his ability enough to give him the most carries on the team. That, to me, pretty much so settles the question of whether or not Mark Ingram has first round talent. Especially since I think Chris Ivory is a pretty damn good NFL running back that also has first round talent.

[St. Widge]

Originally Posted by Wicket6

you can judge what type of player someone is before seeing how he pans out

drafting someone who doesnt fit your offense/defense is plain dumb

and again, judging how well the process has been before you know how the player has turned out can and should be done.

How does Ingram not fit our offense? Please explain it to me and Sean Payton.

Originally Posted by Wicket6

and again, judging how well the process has been before you know how the player has turned out can and should be done.

What?

[Wicket6]

Originally Posted by blackngoldmike

Again, I would rather have Ingram than those running backs. We are 13-3, due in large part to our running game. A running game which Ingram was a part of. Some of those other running backs are part of a 2 maybe 3 man rotation. Ingram is part of a 4 man rotation. When one man goes down, even if the injury is slight, we can easily sit that player and plug in another.

If you think that our front office would not pull the trigger again given the exact circumstances, than you are mistaken.

which other running backs, ive never said they shouldve taken another running back, the whole picking a running back was a terrible idea in the first place. Also, there isnt a game we wouldve lost that we won cuz ingram was in there. Ingram was productive in 2 games, both of which blowouts. I agree that the running game is an integral part of the 13-3 record but thats more up to the offensive line, the passing threat and the three other running backs than ingram as all of them have made more game changing plays, have been more productive and just flat out better.

if in the same situation the FO would make the same mistake again i would not just be shocked, id be flabbergasted and i dont think you can possibly think they would make the same choice again

[blasian]

Originally Posted by Wicket6

which other running backs, ive never said they shouldve taken another running back, the whole picking a running back was a terrible idea in the first place. Also, there isnt a game we wouldve lost that we won cuz ingram was in there. Ingram was productive in 2 games, both of which blowouts. I agree that the running game is an integral part of the 13-3 record but thats more up to the offensive line, the passing threat and the three other running backs than ingram as all of them have made more game changing plays, have been more productive and just flat out better.

if in the same situation the FO would make the same mistake again i would not just be shocked, id be flabbergasted and i dont think you can possibly think they would make the same choice again

Do you feel you could do a better job at drafting than Payton/Loomis?

[Wicket6]

Originally Posted by St. Widge

What?

I cant help you if you cant understand what that part of the post says

Originally Posted by St. Widge

How does Ingram not fit our offense? Please explain it to me and Sean Payton.

to limited a receiver and to little wiggle in the open field to be in the base offense, not aggressive enough to pound the ball down in garbage time to wrap up games, not really feeling like making it an extensive review

[St. Widge]

Originally Posted by Wicket6

I cant help you if you cant understand what that part of the post says

It made absolutely no sense. What process? So, please explain.