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Old 11-01-2007, 11:57 AM   #1
DadsDream
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I'm mad..."infamous"? INFAMOUS? (RIP Gen. Paul Tibbets) (MERGED)

Read this headline from MSNBC...

Pilot of plane that bombed Hiroshima dies
Paul Tibbets, WWII commander of infamous B-29, requested no headstone

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21578185/

"infamous"?

Calling the Enola Gay "infamous" is wrong in my book. Just plain wrong.
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:01 PM   #2
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Oh, they just had to add a sidebar video too:

The human toll of a nuclear blast
MSNBC.com's Dara Brown looks back at the devastating aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


How about few sidebars about Iwo Jima and Saipan and Pearl Harbor too?

How about a sidebar showing Japanese women and kids training with pikes and knives to defend the homeland and fight to the death for the Emperor against the coming invasion?

I guess some things are politically correct and some things aren't.
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:10 PM   #3
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I wonder if they really know what "infamous" means. It's not necessarily an event to be proud of, but to label it as such is wrong.
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:19 PM   #4
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We live in a nation where our elite are self loathing and are willing and working for our way of life to dissapear. This is yet another daily example of the nation passing into the abyss in front of our eyes...
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:25 PM   #5
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The lives that were saved by the end of the war would have been in the millions. In some camps, if we wouldn't have dawdled in getting involved in that war, we could have choked off the Nazi's early and saved countless lives. We've seen the uselessness of political liberalism and waivering enough times in history and are always shocked when people die. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:38 PM   #6
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I was just about to post that Mr. Tibbets died. Good thing I did a search as I wouldn't have guessed this thread was about his passing from the title.

In any case, despite what revisionists want us to believe, this man did his job and in doing so prevented millions more from dying in a long, drawn out invasion of the Japanese mainland. I have no love-lost for wartime Japan being of Filipino descent.

May he Rest In Peace.
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:50 PM   #7
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My letter to the editor:

MSNBC
November 1, 2007
Pilot of plane that bombed Hiroshima dies
Paul Tibbets, WWII commander of infamous B-29, requested no headstone
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21578185/

As a Marine Corps veteran, I strongly object to your headline describing the Enola Gay as "infamous."


President Roosevelt used the word "infamous" to describe Japanese actions at Pearl Harbor.

I feel it is highly inappropriate to use it to describe our own bomber which helped end the war.

Please review your headline for accurate word usage.

Also, if MSNBC simply must add a sidebar video entitled The human toll of a nuclear blast,
could we also get a few other sidebars like Suicides at Saipan, The Toll at Iwo Jima and perhaps a highlight video of Japanese women and children undergoing training to fight to the death for the Emperor in the invasion which the bomb averted?

Thank you for your consideration.
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:53 PM   #8
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I've always felt that people would have more respect for the EnolaGay if the word "Gay" hadn't been used. The Enola Beast or even Enola Slightly Effeminate Straight Guy would have been more masculine titles.
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:56 PM   #9
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A True American Hero has Died

He probably saved thousands of American Soldiers Lives. He shall be missed and he should be praised for his bravery and patriotism. I met him here in Monroe back in the 70s with my father ( who was a 20yr Combat Infantryman in the 25th Tropic Lightning division in the pacific during WW2 and later inKorea) while he was visiting his old pilot training school at Selman Field. If not for this guy my father would have probably been killed in the proposed Invasion of Japan under General MacArthur.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7073441.stm
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:58 PM   #10
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I know Dads is new at this posting new threads thing, but he already touched on it.

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50136
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:58 PM   #11
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No respect!

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Old 11-01-2007, 12:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DadsDream View Post
Oh, they just had to add a sidebar video too:

The human toll of a nuclear blast
MSNBC.com's Dara Brown looks back at the devastating aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

How about few sidebars about Iwo Jima and Saipan and Pearl Harbor too?

How about a sidebar showing Japanese women and kids training with pikes and knives to defend the homeland and fight to the death for the Emperor against the coming invasion?

I guess some things are politically correct and some things aren't.
Was it inevitably necessary to invade and occupy Japan absent the dropping of the atomic bomb?

We'll never know because peace feelers from Japan were ignored. But there was a chance that Japan would have surrendered unconditionally if allowed to keep the emporer.

But we'll never know because the discussion wasn't taken up.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/hamby.htm

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Was_the_at...e_to_surrender
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Last edited by blackadder; 11-01-2007 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DadsDream View Post
Read this headline from MSNBC...

Pilot of plane that bombed Hiroshima dies
Paul Tibbets, WWII commander of infamous B-29, requested no headstone

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21578185/

"infamous"?

Calling the Enola Gay "infamous" is wrong in my book. Just plain wrong.

Infamous- having the reputation of the worst kind..- Merriam/Webster


I would imagine that a weapon, and use of that weapon , that changed the world forever is the reasoning behind the usage.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxboy View Post
I know Dads is new at this posting new threads thing, but he already touched on it.

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50136
beat me to it.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:03 PM   #15
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IN-famous is more than famous. Just like El Guapo.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efil4stnias View Post
Infamous- having the reputation of the worst kind..- Merriam/Webster


I would imagine that a weapon, and use of that weapon , that changed the world forever is the reasoning behind the usage.
You left out an important part of that definition.

Main Entry:
in·fa·mous
Pronunciation:
\ˈin-fə-məs\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Latin infamis, from in- + fama fame
Date:
14th century
1 : having a reputation of the worst kind : notoriously evil

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/infamous
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UptownShark View Post
You left out an important part of that definition.

Main Entry:
in·fa·mous
Pronunciation:
\ˈin-fə-məs\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Latin infamis, from in- + fama fame
Date:
14th century
1 : having a reputation of the worst kind : notoriously evil

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/infamous

Exactly. I left it out on purpose. Depends on your personal view of the context. Interesting how there can be more than 1 definition. So some can say they used the incorrect word and others can say they didnt. Depends on your view.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:22 PM   #18
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It did drop a bomb that killed between 100,000 - 140,000 people, many civilians. Argue the merits of dropping the bomb versus not dropping the bomb all you want, but it doesn't change that fact.

Am I the only one that is not outraged by MSNBC's word choice?

(Preparing for the standard (R) team questioning of my patriotism in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...)
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efil4stnias View Post
Exactly. I left it out on purpose. Depends on your personal view of the context. Interesting how there can be more than 1 definition. So some can say they used the incorrect word and others can say they didnt. Depends on your view.
It's pretty clear to me that they intended to imply that the plane, the act and the man were evil, especially given the sidebar video of the physical effects of the attack.

This is called "editorializing."

There's nothing wrong with that, if it's on the editorial page. But this isn't.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirdyhearn View Post
It did drop a bomb that killed between 100,000 - 140,000 people, many civilians. Argue the merits of dropping the bomb versus not dropping the bomb all you want, but it doesn't change that fact.

Am I the only one that is not outraged by MSNBC's word choice?

(Preparing for the standard (R) team questioning of my patriotism in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...)
I'm not overly concerned about it.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I'm not overly concerned about it.
Me either, as an historian. I understand why the decision was made to drop the bomb and I understand why it would be an "infamous" plane.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
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We'll never know because peace feelers from Japan were ignored. But there is a chance that Japan would have surrendered unconditionally if allowed to keep the emporer.

But we'll never no because the discussion wasn't taken up.
The situation wasn't as you're attempting to portray it.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DadsDream View Post
It's pretty clear to me that they intended to imply that the plane, the act and the man were evil, especially given the sidebar video of the physical effects of the attack.

This is called "editorializing."

There's nothing wrong with that, if it's on the editorial page. But this isn't.
It's just as likely here that you have a product of our declining educational standards.

They might not really know what infamous means. Maybe they meant "notorious?"

I had saved a web page on CNN from three or four years ago. It was an article about Iran and Israel's problems with the Iranian nuclear program.

The article featured a side bar with a picture of an Iranian tank and its crew. The caption under the photo was "Iranian tanks massed on the border of Israel."

Now, what was wrong with that statement?

I wrote the editor asking for the inaccuracies to be removed. I'm not sure it was just in response to me but after an hour or so the caption was removed.

Given American geography skills I can't know if the disinformation was intentional or just a reflectiono of the ignorance of the intern or junior staffer who put it together.

We can't really know in this case either.
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Last edited by blackadder; 11-01-2007 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:32 PM   #24
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As a veteran, I tend to view it as a "heroic" or at least "historic" plane, of course.

I feel that the use of the word "infamous" to describe the Enola Gay is editorializing.

It's inappropriate for a news story announcing the death of Gen. Paul Tibbets and it dishonors him, in my opinion.
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Old 11-01-2007, 01:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSSpam View Post
The situation wasn't as you're attempting to portray it.
There were no peace feelers from Japan?

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...3a06p_0001.htm

http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journ...69.4krebs.html

Please enlighten.

I'm not "portraying" anything.

Facts are facts.
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Last edited by blackadder; 11-01-2007 at 01:36 PM.
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