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Old 09-12-2017, 12:47 PM   #1
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The Medicare for All Act of 2017

https://news.vice.com/story/bernie-w...payer-for-real


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The Medicare for All Act of 2017, a 75-page bill that would transform America’s healthcare system by having the federal government insure everyone, will be introduced at 2 p.m. Wednesday by its author, Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

In the past, Sanders’ crusade for a single payer system has been a lonely one. No Senators cosponsored his last government healthcare bill, or the one before that, or the one before that. But on Wednesday there will be at least six and potentially several more.

These cosponsors include the most prominent Democrats in the country — who are also keeping their options open for the 2020 presidential race — such Sens. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, Cory Booker of New Jersey, Kamala Harris of California, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, and Jeff Merkley of Oregon.

It'll be interesting to watch how this unfolds. Probably a DoA with the current congressional control, but it'll push the issue which they are looking pretty bad on right now.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:51 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Expatriate View Post
https://news.vice.com/story/bernie-w...payer-for-real





It'll be interesting to watch how this unfolds. Probably a DoA with the current congressional control, but it'll push the issue which they are looking pretty bad on right now.

If he would rename it the "Medicare for all Repeal of Obamacare", he could get Trump on board, and between the die hard Trumpers left in the Republicans, and the Democrats, they could get it passed.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:58 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by samiam5211 View Post
If he would rename it the "Medicare for all Repeal of Obamacare", he could get Trump on board, and between the die hard Trumpers left in the Republicans, and the Democrats, they could get it passed.
If he named it that, it'd pass with 100% across the board. They wouldn't even attempt to tack on their own projects, or argue for any sort of changes.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:10 PM   #4
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Nothing the government does is free. You lose liberties with each payoff. Socialism/communism ends one way
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintsJunkie View Post
Nothing the government does is free. You lose liberties with each payoff. Socialism/communism ends one way
They are not the same.

how do they end?
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by SWJJ View Post
They are not the same.

how do they end?
Don't hold your breath for an answer with any semblance of making sense.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintsJunkie View Post
Nothing the government does is free. You lose liberties with each payoff. Socialism/communism ends one way
Who said free?
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiam5211 View Post
If he would rename it the "Medicare for all Repeal of Obamacare", he could get Trump on board, and between the die hard Trumpers left in the Republicans, and the Democrats, they could get it passed.
Hell, they could take a bill that does exactly what Obamacare does, call it the Healthcare Free Market and Obamacare Repeal Act of 2017 and 3/4 of the country would have no idea what just happened.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:28 PM   #9
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If Obamacare had simply been able to maintain the "public option" that was a cornerstone of the original plan, we'd be pretty close to a setup where there is in effect "Medicaid for all", but the health insurance industry and their GOP watercarriers were careful to make sure they killed that piece as a condition for approving the rest of it.

After that, it was a much easier baby to smother on a state-by-state basis.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintsJunkie View Post
Nothing the government does is free. You lose liberties with each payoff. Socialism/communism ends one way
We aren't asking for free. We're asking for more coverage for less money. We start by taking away incentive for profits and run a program at cost.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintJ View Post
If Obamacare had simply been able to maintain the "public option" that was a cornerstone of the original plan, we'd be pretty close to a setup where there is in effect "Medicaid for all".
He had the House, Senate and Executive Office. This is what Obama WANTED...and let 'Republican crying' move him off of his legacy.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWJJ View Post
They are not the same.

how do they end?
top 10 in most categories

more democratic than oligarchies, certainly
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintJ View Post
If Obamacare had simply been able to maintain the "public option" that was a cornerstone of the original plan, we'd be pretty close to a setup where there is in effect "Medicaid for all", but the health insurance industry and their GOP watercarriers were careful to make sure they killed that piece as a condition for approving the rest of it.

After that, it was a much easier baby to smother on a state-by-state basis.
THANKS FOR GETTING THAT REMOVED, Joe Lieberman.
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintsJunkie View Post
Nothing the government does is free. You lose liberties with each payoff. Socialism/communism ends one way


In this case liberties for what? The freedom to die without medical care? The freedom to not afford preventative care? The freedom to not be able to see a doctor until you are so sick it's a major problem? The freedom to pay more than any other country for health care for the vast majority of cases is worse? To which freedom are you giving up? Which liberties? Her read this and focus on the phrase right after provide for the common defense and before secure the blessings of liberty. Se where it says promote the general welfare? Yeah that means to promote a healthy population. It doesn't mean they are going to take away anything.


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintsJunkie View Post
Nothing the government does is free. You lose liberties with each payoff. Socialism/communism ends one way
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintsJunkie View Post
Nothing the government does is free. You lose liberties with each payoff. Socialism/communism ends one way
So based on all of the services this country has provided its citizens that are socialist in nature, and there's a list a mile long, we should have lost most of any liberty we had left a long time ago. How are we losing all of this liberty again?

With regards to the OP..You do realize that you already pay for people you don't know to receive healthcare? Or because healthcare is so disorganized and complex, you forgot?

Gosh, I'd hate to think of the world we live in where any American citizen could walk into a clinic and receive care, regardless of pre-existing condition. It'd just make me furious to think any lazy bum could waltz in and get something only a good working person like myself should have. That just makes my blood boil. It just goes against everything I've been taught

There is a widespread delusion that people that only those who work hard and "make something of themselves" should have access to "perks" like healthcare, education, etc. As if these are the rewards of being a good (lucky) citizen. Even totally ignoring the fact that folks who think this way neglect the socioeconomic/biological factors that prove this is a disastrously naive train of thought--why would anyone seriously want to adopt the dysfunctional "survival of the fittest" attitude as it relates to their fellow citizens? Social Darwinism may be the only type of Darwinism conservatives would ever subscribe to, but nobody with any serious credential has ever thought this would be a good idea. Nobody.

This article is a good read:

Quote:
Of all the arguments put forth against everything from the Affordable Care Act to social safety net programs, the "I don't want to pay for X" argument from the right has to be the most asinine. The upcoming decision on the Supreme Court's King vs. Burwell case – which could yank subsidies out from under anyone using the federal health care exchange – is a prime example.

As Robert Schlesinger has pointed out, the lawsuit's proponents are relying on a known falsehood about the intent of the law because they don't want taxpayer support going to people who otherwise couldn't afford health insurance. It's "I Don't Wanna" as a Supreme Court test case.

Newsflash to the right: I don't want to pay for a lot of things either, starting with Exxon subsidies, Bush's wars and the millions we paid to sociopaths to come up with torture techniques for the CIA. Who the hell gave you a monopoly on morality when it comes to spending public dollars? Do you think you're the only ones who object to where our tax dollars go? Because if we only have to pay for the things of which we approve, I've got a long veto list.

[READ: The Republicans' King v. Burwell Problem]

The I Don't Wanna Caucus is willfully oblivious to the fact that a whole lot of people pay for them, too. Texas is more than happy to accept Federal Emergency Management Agency money – they actually got more than any other state in 2011 and 2012 – at the same time Texas Gov. Greg Abbott deploys the state guard against an imaginary Obama takeover and sues the federal government over the environment and health care.

Here in Colorado, as the Colorado Springs Gazette has reported about its home of El Paso County, "The county is more dependent on federal money than most other places in Colorado and the nation … Federal spending accounts for one-third of the local economy." Yet Colorado Springs would rather have its parks go brown and its streetlights fade than increase taxes locally to pay for them.

The I Don't Wanna Caucus is not only ideologically hypocritical, it's also irresponsible. The I Don't Wanna Caucus of Colorado Senate Republicans killed our highly-successful program that slashed the teen birth and abortion rate by providing free long-acting reversible contraceptives to low-income women. Every $1 invested in the program saved the state $5.85 in Medicaid costs. The Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment estimates that the program could have saved Colorado $49 million to $111 million in Medicaid dollars per year in birth-related costs.


[SEE: Political Cartoons on Obamacare]

Likewise, insurance is cheaper than no insurance. People without insurance end up in the emergency room, where they have to be treated and where the cost shifts onto someone else. Guess who pays for that? People with insurance. But now, thanks to the Affordable Care Act, hospitals saved at least $7.4 billion in 2014, according to the Department of Health and Human Services.

All of us have someone else paying for us in some form or another, through paved roads and clean drinking water and home mortgage tax deductions. Those of us without kids subsidize schools and teachers for other people's children. Living in a civilized society means we all share in the cost and responsibility. Living in a civilized society also means we all pay for things we find morally objectionable – conservatives and liberals alike.

Because the alternative – the I Don't Wanna Caucus – doesn't belong in a first world country.
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