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Old 09-18-2017, 06:14 PM   #1
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CNN: Manafort was wiretapped

While Trump claims that Obama illegally ordered surveillance of Trump Tower, the FBI was performing Court approved (read: legal) monitoring of his campaign manager, Paul Manafort.

US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman - CNNPolitics


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Old 09-18-2017, 06:56 PM   #2
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Also being reported that Mueller told Manafort to expect to receive an indictment.

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Old 09-18-2017, 07:01 PM   #3
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullMonte View Post
While Trump claims that Obama illegally ordered surveillance of Trump Tower, the FBI was performing Court approved (read: legal) monitoring of his campaign manager, Paul Manafort.

US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman - CNNPolitics


he still claiming it.

yet his followers will not understand the separation between branches of government, therefore concluding indeed it was Obama that ordered it.

sometimes I wonder if life really is easier when you just have no clue.

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Old 09-18-2017, 08:13 PM   #5
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They didn't stop surveillance of a suspected foreign agent just because he was hired to manage a presidential campaign.

Obama didn't order the surveillance of Trumps campaign manager, Trump hired a suspected foreign agent who was being surveiled to be his campaign manager.
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Old 09-18-2017, 09:46 PM   #6
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An important distinction that will be lost on Trump supporters, and will go completely unacknowledged by Hannity et al.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efil4stnias View Post
sometimes I wonder if life really is easier when you just have no clue.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosswatt View Post
Interesting quote. more so due to the lack of doubt/skepticism seen on the issue.

I do not know the timeline of this and I don't know which agency initially sought the secret court order to spy.

But it is possible we have the U.S. government using a secret "court" for justification to spy on political opposition. A court who essentially never turns down the government (a 0.03% denial rate). how that does not command widespread outrage is scary to me.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEverett View Post

But it is possible we have the U.S. government using a secret "court" for justification to spy on political opposition. A court who essentially never turns down the government (a 0.03% denial rate). how that does not command widespread outrage is scary to me.
Possibly. But surveillance started in 2014, long before Trump was the opposition. Granted, there was a second warrant that might be cause for concern, but with his track record and already being on law enforcement radar, it's certainly reasonable to consider that he may have been picked up by surveillance of the Russians during that time which indicated reasonable suspicion that he was acting as a foreign agent.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzd View Post
Possibly. But surveillance started in 2014, long before Trump was the opposition. Granted, there was a second warrant that might be cause for concern, but with his track record and already being on law enforcement radar, it's certainly reasonable to consider that he may have been picked up by surveillance of the Russians during that time which indicated reasonable suspicion that he was acting as a foreign agent.
Right, the second institution of surveillance - the one started after the intial one was discontinued for lack of evidence. Did that second one start while Manaofort was working for the campaign?

I think its bad enough that surveillance via a secret court was carried out on someone that close to an opposition campaign, much more so if they were actively a part of the opposition campaign.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEverett View Post
Right, the second institution of surveillance - the one started after the intial one was discontinued for lack of evidence. Did that second one start while Manaofort was working for the campaign?

I think its bad enough that surveillance via a secret court was carried out on someone that close to an opposition campaign, much more so if they were actively a part of the opposition campaign.
In a vacuum, sure. But then what is the mechanism to prevent any foreign agent from embedding within a campaign? Do opposition (or any) campaigns now have immunity from breaking laws of the US? What is the balance there?
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEverett View Post
Interesting quote. more so due to the lack of doubt/skepticism seen on the issue.

I do not know the timeline of this and I don't know which agency initially sought the secret court order to spy.

But it is possible we have the U.S. government using a secret "court" for justification to spy on political opposition. A court who essentially never turns down the government (a 0.03% denial rate). how that does not command widespread outrage is scary to me.
Come on. This is the nonsense outrage of infowars. The same FBI that was surveiling Manafort was actively and publicly investigating Clinton during the campaign. Manafort was actively working for the Russian backed Ukraine government. This most likely lead to the 2014 surveillance. He met with Russian representatives in 2016 at Trump Tower with the purpose of seeking foreign aid.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzd View Post
In a vacuum, sure. But then what is the mechanism to prevent any foreign agent from embedding within a campaign? Do opposition (or any) campaigns now have immunity from breaking laws of the US? What is the balance there?
FISA is not the only court that can issue warrants. Why would the Obama Administration use FISA and not a federal district court judge?
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B4YOU View Post
Come on. This is the nonsense outrage of infowars. The same FBI that was surveiling Manafort was actively and publicly investigating Clinton during the campaign. Manafort was actively working for the Russian backed Ukraine government. This most likely lead to the 2014 surveillance. He met with Russian representatives in 2016 at Trump Tower with the purpose of seeking foreign aid.

Really, that is all it is - nonsense outrage of infowars????

Where is the evidence that the government used FISA in order to get secret surveillance on the Clinton campaign?
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEverett View Post
FISA is not the only court that can issue warrants. Why would the Obama Administration use FISA and not a federal district court judge?
Because it's investigating foreign intelligence which is what that court is for.
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