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Old 09-27-2017, 09:11 AM   #91
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When did the military claim ownership of the national anthem anyway? I've always pledged allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands, not the servicemen who fought to preserve it.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:16 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Brennan77 View Post
I've mentioned this in other threads. For the most part, people do not believe in the value of dialogue any longer. If we do not believe that our perception and rationality can recognize something of objective truth, then dialogue is meaningless and a waste of time. We are left with nothing but a conflict of will. Oppositions are to be disdained and destroyed. It's an alarming departure from enlightenment era principles. Trump is an extreme example.
Antifa is a perfect example.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:28 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by KingBarkus View Post
Antifa is a perfect example.
I agree. I think Trump is playing the same game. Berate, insult, shout down, shut down your opposition in whatever way you can. There's no sense in dialogue. That only represents weakness. The words and expressions of freedom from your enemy are really acts of oppression and tyranny against the good guys. Since we are the possessors of goodness, it is our duty to become the tyrant ourselves and impose our goodness by force.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:34 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBarkus View Post
Are you kidding me? Obama CREATED the divide we see now. We as a nation were far more unified before anyone heard of Obama. Obama, a community organizer (agitator), held divisive beliefs and shielded those beliefs behind rhetoric. You leftists on here refuse to see it. Someone ITT
asked for a list of policies that divided the country. Off the top of my head, here are some examples (not official policies but actions during the Obama administration):
Against my best judgement...
Quote:
"Cambridge police acted stupidly..."
They did.
Quote:
"Travon could have been my son..." He was a thug.
Why was he a thug? Because black with a hoodie?
Quote:
Michael Brown - Brown was shown and proven to be a criminal and his life was destroyed. Obama and his justice department took up Brown's case.
Imagine that, the DoJ doing an investigation...
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Apologizing oversees for America.
That's actually not true. That's a narrative that was started by Karl Rove.
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Leading from behind nonsense.
It is nonsense... but it is nonsense because that came from a comment by some adviser during an interview, and it spread like wild fire in the alt-right media.
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Siccing the IRS on 503C Conservative organizations
The IRS sics itself. Ironic, though, that the GOP claimed conservative groups were unfairly and disproportionately targeted over other groups, don't you think?
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Obama campaign material inside IRS state offices
Office. The Dallas office. And there are questions as to whether said employees actually violated the Hatch Act or not, given the timing of the display. And tacking that to Obama himself is a streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch.
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Threatening religious cake bakers if they don't bake a cake for a gay marriage
Yet another alt-right media fabrication. Obama never threated anyone.
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Driving a wedge between law enforcement and the community
Law enforcement has driven a wedge between law enforcement and the community. Again, another alt-right media narrative.
Quote:
Refusing to prosecute baton-wielding POS thugs on site at a Philly polling site
Did they actually break any laws?
Do you feel the same about the AR wielding, NRA t-shirt wearing thugs walking around chanting "ballots or bullets"?
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DACA executive order (illegal, btw)
What's illegal about DACA?

Hmmm... it seems it the force behind the divide is the alt-right media... interesting.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:47 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brennan77 View Post
I agree. I think Trump is playing the same game. Berate, insult, shout down, shut down your opposition in whatever way you can. There's no sense in dialogue. That only represents weakness. The words and expressions of freedom from your enemy are really acts of oppression and tyranny against the good guys. Since we are the possessors of goodness, it is our duty to become the tyrant ourselves and impose our goodness by force.
One is a loosely organized, relatively tiny band of citizens.\

The other is President of the United States.

Yet, according to the right wing narrative, antifa is the bigger threat to freedom.
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Because someone is wrong on the internet and it gets my jimmies rustled.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:48 AM   #96
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Politics should not be part of the game.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:51 AM   #97
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Quote:
KingBarkus
Did Obama ever berate a service member's family?
Did Obama ever say a POW's service wasn't good enough?
Did Obama ever publicly mock a disabled man?
Did Obama ever threaten to pass legislation to punish those who do not stand for a song?
Did Obama ever offer to pay the fines for one of his supporters to beat up protestors?

Answer those questions...Or don't and start with the "but Obama". It's to be expected at this point.


You have no room to speak. Save the "but Obama/antifa/BLM/libs" nonsense. Your base helped elect the most unamerican commander in chief in this country's history--and that can be verified with observable evidence. Save your lecture. Our president is on track to log more embarrassing failures in one year than all presidents before him combined, while folks like you just dig in..Because to hell with logic--it's more important to aggravate some "leftists", huh?

Disgraceful. Temperamental. Oblivious to reality. Unfit for office. Be proud of that vote.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:55 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not2rich View Post
One is a loosely organized, relatively tiny band of citizens.\

The other is President of the United States.

Yet, according to the right wing narrative, antifa is the bigger threat to freedom.
Don't get sucked into the polarization of believing in 'sides'. They are both expressions of the same core philosophy. Both are rotten.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:57 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alohawhodat View Post
Did Obama ever berate a service member's family?
Did Obama ever say a POW's service wasn't good enough?
Did Obama ever publicly mock a disabled man?
Did Obama ever threaten to pass legislation to punish those who do not stand for a song?
Did Obama ever offer to pay the fines for one of his supporters to beat up protestors?

Answer those questions...Or don't and start with the "but Obama". It's to be expected at this point.


You have no room to speak. Save the "but Obama/antifa/BLM/libs" nonsense. Your base helped elect the most unamerican commander in chief in this country's history--and that can be verified with observable evidence. Save your lecture. Our president is on track to log more embarrassing failures in one year than all presidents before him combined, while folks like you just dig in..Because to hell with logic--it's more important to aggravate some "leftists", huh?

Disgraceful. Temperamental. Oblivious to reality. Unfit for office. Be proud of that vote.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he will not answer those questions, but come back in and freedom/murica up this joint.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:00 AM   #100
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Quote:
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He's exercising his freedom in a free marketplace and society. What they are doing is not offensive to you. But it is offensive to a good number of people as they are making a gesture that subverts something that to many is sacred and universal.

This whole thing is actually a good exercise in democracy and capitalism. It's a great expression of the freedom of individuals and businesses within the context of disagreement, just as it should be. The players are free to make their protest. The fans are free to stop supporting the product. The NFL is free to fire (or not hire) who they like. And even that boob of a president is free to make whatever comments he wants inasmuch as he is not imposing actual policies to enforce his view (which is unconstitutional and would get him impeached).

Personally, I'm refusing to be driven onto either 'side' in this debate. I think one can simultaneously respect the ideal and sacrifice the flag represents while also supporting causes of injustice.
Well said.

It will be interesting to see just how all of this shakes down to the bottom line for the NFL. While it is a small sample size, I've heard almost a dozen guys say they are through with the Saints and NFL. A couple are what I would consider "big" fans of the Saints. ALL of these guys are older (55+), white males. Call them racists. Call them whatever.....I just find it very interesting that 100% of them were so appalled about the flag mess that they swore off NFL football. I wonder if this could be happening throughout the country with this particular demographic. (I eavesdropped on the old men at the gym to gain this knowledge).
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:06 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Bayouboy View Post
Well said.

It will be interesting to see just how all of this shakes down to the bottom line for the NFL. While it is a small sample size, I've heard almost a dozen guys say they are through with the Saints and NFL. A couple are what I would consider "big" fans of the Saints. ALL of these guys are older (55+), white males. Call them racists. Call them whatever.....I just find it very interesting that 100% of them were so appalled about the flag mess that they swore off NFL football. I wonder if this could be happening throughout the country with this particular demographic. (I eavesdropped on the old men at the gym to gain this knowledge).
The League is still #1 on TV in 18-34. Its number one overall.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:08 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alohawhodat View Post
Did Obama ever berate a service member's family?
Did Obama ever say a POW's service wasn't good enough?
Did Obama ever publicly mock a disabled man?
Did Obama ever threaten to pass legislation to punish those who do not stand for a song?
Did Obama ever offer to pay the fines for one of his supporters to beat up protestors?
Let me add to your list:

Did Obama ever say an American judge with Mexican parents was unfit to judge a case involving a wall?

Did Obama campaign on LITERALLY BUILDING A DIVIDING WALL, YOU KNOW, TO DIVIDE?

Did Obama draw equivalence between neo-nazis and people protesting neo-nazis by suggesting that there were "good people on both sides"?

Did Obama ever revoke the news credentials of a mainstream press organization because he didn't agree with their coverage?

I mean, we could go all day on this. The reason Obama divided the country is because of who he is (a black guy). Trump divides the country because of what he does.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:09 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayouboy View Post
Well said.

It will be interesting to see just how all of this shakes down to the bottom line for the NFL. While it is a small sample size, I've heard almost a dozen guys say they are through with the Saints and NFL. A couple are what I would consider "big" fans of the Saints. ALL of these guys are older (55+), white males. Call them racists. Call them whatever.....I just find it very interesting that 100% of them were so appalled about the flag mess that they swore off NFL football. I wonder if this could be happening throughout the country with this particular demographic. (I eavesdropped on the old men at the gym to gain this knowledge).
And I can tell you the League/Networks care ALOT more about 18-35 than 55+
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:15 AM   #104
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The only way the league loses if they start losing sponsors(Bud Light,Visa etc) That does not appear to be happening! Have not heard anything locally either. Ochsner,Verizon,Mercedes still sponsor the Saints.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:21 AM   #105
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Quote:
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Don't get sucked into the polarization of believing in 'sides'. They are both expressions of the same core philosophy. Both are rotten.
I certainly find myself struggling with this concept more and more as it relates to religion.

(And, yes, I absolutely do accept that religion is undeniably intertwined in politics.)
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