Thank You "Or Kansas". (1 Viewer)

St. PJ

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I'd like to give props to the Razorbacks. Especially to their coaches. They definately out coached LSU in just about every aspect, from confusing the ever confused QB from the first snap to clock management. I'd also like to thank them in advance for hopefully getting some of LSU's staff fired.

They didn't do it alone, but you see, if the Mad Hatter somehow pulled this one out of his you know what, I was afraid to hear during the Sugarbowl how we hired another coach who was friends with Gary Crowton.

I guess I am saying I want Crowton-- at the very LEAST just Crowton-- fired. I'm saying it now, because when it should have been done last year, the next bit of news we heard was that he got Florida's WR coach because he was good friends with Crowton-- which meant another year of pulling out your hair with the most horrible offense you've ever seen on a championship calibur team.

And I say at the very least because this game was classic 3rd and Chavis. I think I want to throw up. But I'll forgive Chavis, and I'll even forgive Miles. After all, he somehow managed 10 wins, including Alabama, and only lost by one score to Auburn and Arkansas despite not having a QB, though he should shoulder some blame for that.

But at the very least, the one person who has to go-- the one person who has consistantly gotten worse each year-- Gary Crowton-- needs to be fired. So I'm happy that now I don't have to hope we jump TCU in the BCS and that I have to hope on of the beter teams-- Auburn and Oregon-- somehow lose. Because those two teams deserve to be in the NC. And LSU deserves to suffer for Les Miles decision to fire Gary Crowton a season to late. Its not just clock management. Maybe Miles needs to go too. Its a damn shame all this talent, especially at WR and RB, has been wasted, especially when we had a defense and special teams that could have won a National Championship if they could count on the offense to balance things out just a little. In my heart of hearts, the week before we played Auburn I really hoped LSU went undefeated this year, won the National Championship, and that the AD fired Miles and Crowton anyway for underproducing.

When the head coach has fans asking for his head at 7-0, he's not doing something right. When you feel the other team deserves to win almost every game, and you are upset after a win, something isn't right. It's time for change.
 
Im a Les Miles supporter. I think hes fine to be honest.

Who isnt fine however is Gary Crowton and I agree that he needs to go. We need to bring a new offensive coordinator into the fold that can do something with our offensive talent.

All things considering, LSU had a good season. I think a lot here are fooling themselves if they thought before the season started that LSU was gonna be a National Title caliber team. We have no QB and our offensive coordinator is bad. That is a horrible mixture. The writing was already on the wall when it came to our QB situation. It was bleak last year and word was that JJ didnt progress much in the off season. So the writing was already on the wall before the season started.

I honestly was expecting a 7-8 win season (so did a lot here and if you say otherwise you are lying to yourself) So 10-2 exceeded my expectations.

A lot of the pundits were all saying that next year will be LSUs year anyhow. We just peaked a year early and what will come next season.

If Jordan Jefferson does not progress again in the off season, I say that we let Steven Rivers start from day 1.

But here is to hoping that we can land an offensive coordinator that can do something with our offensive talent and QB situation.
 
Im a Les Miles supporter. I think hes fine to be honest.

Who isnt fine however is Gary Crowton and I agree that he needs to go. We need to bring a new offensive coordinator into the fold that can do something with our offensive talent.

All things considering, LSU had a good season. I think a lot here are fooling themselves if they thought before the season started that LSU was gonna be a National Title caliber team. We have no QB and our offensive coordinator is bad. That is a horrible mixture. The writing was already on the wall when it came to our QB situation. It was bleak last year and word was that JJ didnt progress much in the off season. So the writing was already on the wall before the season started.

I honestly was expecting a 7-8 win season (so did a lot here and if you say otherwise you are lying to yourself) So 10-2 exceeded my expectations.

A lot of the pundits were all saying that next year will be LSUs year anyhow. We just peaked a year early and what will come next season.

If Jordan Jefferson does not progress again in the off season, I say that we let Steven Rivers start from day 1.

But here is to hoping that we can land an offensive coordinator that can do something with our offensive talent and QB situation.

I so desperately want to be a Miles supporter. If he were any kind of stand up guy, it would be easier. If he didn't dodge every issue, act is if everything is A OK, and pretend there's no pink elephant-- if he had admitted there was some kind of problem, we are trying this approach, anything other than doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, it would be much easier to support Miles.

I like Marty Shottenheimer and Dan Reeves, but I don't want either as my head coach. Les is a good guy, but he comes off like a combination of George Bush and Dale Brown. He's great at recruiting, but is outclassed when it comes to x's and o's, is too loyal to the people around him to make tough decisions, and isn't good enough unless he has an all star coaching staff running things for him.

How about some accoutability?
 
I so desperately want to be a Miles supporter. If he were any kind of stand up guy, it would be easier. If he didn't dodge every issue, act is if everything is A OK, and pretend there's no pink elephant-- if he had admitted there was some kind of problem, we are trying this approach, anything other than doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, it would be much easier to support Miles.

I like Marty Shottenheimer and Dan Reeves, but I don't want either as my head coach. Les is a good guy, but he comes off like a combination of George Bush and Dale Brown. He's great at recruiting, but is outclassed when it comes to x's and o's, is too loyal to the people around him to make tough decisions, and isn't good enough unless he has an all star coaching staff running things for him.

How about some accoutability?

Les Miles is what I like in a College Coach personally. I like a coach at this level that can go out and recruit talent (which Les Miles is awesome at) and yeah, he may not be the best at the X's and O's side of things, but the guy always somehow manages to pull another rabbit out of his hat and win.

I think what needs to happen is - We need to surround him with good coordinators. Les Miles recruiting prowess is just too good to say "lets fire the guy" so this way, its win/win and the best of both worlds. A lot of the good coaches out there have had great coaching staffs around them. Take a look at Bill Belichick. Heck, even Carrol when he was at USC. Urben Meyer at Florida had a good staff around him too before other teams started plucking his assistants away from him.

Not to mention, the players love Les Miles. That is important.

The pieces around the head coach are just as important as the head coach itself.

I think we need to begin with the offensive coordinator and get Gary Crowton out of here and bring in someone else.
 
Les Miles is what I like in a College Coach personally. I like a coach at this level that can go out and recruit talent (which Les Miles is awesome at) and yeah, he may not be the best at the X's and O's side of things, but the guy always somehow manages to pull another rabbit out of his hat and win.

I think what needs to happen is - We need to surround him with good coordinators. Les Miles recruiting prowess is just too good to say "lets fire the guy" so this way, its win/win and the best of both worlds. A lot of the good coaches out there have had great coaching staffs around them. Take a look at Bill Belichick. Heck, even Carrol when he was at USC. Urben Meyer at Florida had a good staff around him too before other teams started plucking his assistants away from him.

Not to mention, the players love Les Miles. That is important.

The pieces around the head coach are just as important as the head coach itself.

I think we need to begin with the offensive coordinator and get Gary Crowton out of here and bring in someone else.

From shinerfan on TigerDroppings:

I think its critically important to get someone with a similar offensive philosophy as Miles. Lurching back and forth between spread formations and power-I formations with no apparent planning or foresight has resulted in a bipolar offense that is incapable of establishing rhythm or momentum. I don't hate the spread but if Miles is going to overrule the OC and call Schembechler? plays at key moments in a game then its better to go pro-style, power-I as the primary sets.

________


There is much to like about Les, but in terms of your Bill Belichick comparison, Bill would step in and relieve someone of their duties if they weren't getting it done. Bill knows offense, defense, and special teams and is about the most well rounded coach there is. Bill gets everything out of his talent (in many cases lesser talent). LSU has had a top 10 recruiting class every year in the past DECADE. If Les isn't man enough to see what needs to be done and do it himself (as was the case last year in not firing Crowton, and this year in not taking over the play calling) he needs to go. Your head guy can't be loyal to a default-- too scared to pick one guy over the other, so you make two defensive coordinators, too scared to get rid of a guy you previously got a raise for because it may mean that you made a mistake you have to own up to because it means that a guy you like isn't qualified-- that kind of thing.

LSU is like Mora's Saints, except they have a stable of star power RB's and WR's to go along with great defense and special teams. Even with a subpar QB, sticking to one system would go a long way in terms of building cohesiveness and god forbid, momentum. Instead, we have a battle between Carl Smith and Mike Martz-- either too predicatable or too complicated/intricate of a system that doesn't match the players you have (offensive line and qb).

Point is, if Les Miles hasn't been able to see this over the last few years, maybe he shouldn't be the head coach at a program like LSU. Multimillions of dollars are at stake. Do you really want a guy who chooses to make no decision when a decision should be made-- a guy who pretends nothing is wrong? A guy who, in order to be successful, has to have others around him making decisions someone in his position is supposed to make? We won a NC because Bo Pelini was the disciplinarian, the guy who paid attention to detail, the guy who wore the pants. Les just wears the hat.
 
I'd like to give props to the Razorbacks. Especially to their coaches. They definately out coached LSU in just about every aspect, from confusing the ever confused QB from the first snap to clock management. I'd also like to thank them in advance for hopefully getting some of LSU's staff fired.

They didn't do it alone, but you see, if the Mad Hatter somehow pulled this one out of his you know what, I was afraid to hear during the Sugarbowl how we hired another coach who was friends with Gary Crowton.

I guess I am saying I want Crowton-- at the very LEAST just Crowton-- fired. I'm saying it now, because when it should have been done last year, the next bit of news we heard was that he got Florida's WR coach because he was good friends with Crowton-- which meant another year of pulling out your hair with the most horrible offense you've ever seen on a championship calibur team.

And I say at the very least because this game was classic 3rd and Chavis. I think I want to throw up. But I'll forgive Chavis, and I'll even forgive Miles. After all, he somehow managed 10 wins, including Alabama, and only lost by one score to Auburn and Arkansas despite not having a QB, though he should shoulder some blame for that.

But at the very least, the one person who has to go-- the one person who has consistantly gotten worse each year-- Gary Crowton-- needs to be fired. So I'm happy that now I don't have to hope we jump TCU in the BCS and that I have to hope on of the beter teams-- Auburn and Oregon-- somehow lose. Because those two teams deserve to be in the NC. And LSU deserves to suffer for Les Miles decision to fire Gary Crowton a season to late. Its not just clock management. Maybe Miles needs to go too. Its a damn shame all this talent, especially at WR and RB, has been wasted, especially when we had a defense and special teams that could have won a National Championship if they could count on the offense to balance things out just a little. In my heart of hearts, the week before we played Auburn I really hoped LSU went undefeated this year, won the National Championship, and that the AD fired Miles and Crowton anyway for underproducing.

When the head coach has fans asking for his head at 7-0, he's not doing something right. When you feel the other team deserves to win almost every game, and you are upset after a win, something isn't right. It's time for change.

Well said... the ONLY reason Tiger Fans EVER thought we could win another BCSCG is a combination of Les Miles UNBELIEVABLE luck along with how freakishly horrible all the other teams are this year.

Arkansas finally ended whatever slimmer of hope I had for this season. Watching Jefferson's insanely horribly beyond nuclear meltdown during Arkansas yet AGAIN... just shines a glaring bright spotlight directly on the lack of QB development on this team. Crowton's job is to coordinate, plan, bring together this offense and develop players. That hasn't happened the last three years now, so we've officially hit the end of the road. Goodbye.
 
It seems a lot of college coaches aren't exactly great Xs-and-Os guys so I'm okay with that. Les isn't the problem, Crowton is. Our offense has had zero identity for 3 consecutive seasons and neither QB has really progressed at all. And there's no creativity outside of the trick plays Les calls in crucial situations. The playbook consists of a terrible option, straight-ahead runs, and deep passes. None of these take advantage of the offensive talent we have. Crowton is like the anti-Payton. Payton goes out and gets pieces to fit his offense and finds ways to get guys involved. Crowton takes the talent we have and puts them in roles they're not suited for.

I have few problems with Miles as the HC; players love him, he believes in his players, he has the balls to call trick plays when they're needed (and he knows when to call them, judging by the success rate), and he recruits extremely well. We just need an OC who can establish an offensive identity and control all aspects of the offense.
 
Teams don't consistently win close games because of luck. They win them because of preparation. Please stop buying into every comment those idiots on TV spit out for commentary and weak humor. That "toss over the shoulder" play to the kicker has been very successful for LSU. Guess what? They practice it every week. You can get a few lucky bounces, but only a buffoon would think that could possibly translate into as impressive of a record as Miles has since coming to LSU.

Miles has consistently identified and corrected issues within the program and done so in an extremely classy way. No need to drag coaches through the mud to achieve the desired results. DC issues? Mallory and Peveto both leave the program amicably and Chavis is hired. Problem solved. DJ McCarthy involved in shady recruiting practices? He leaves town in the middle of the night and Miles hires Gonzales and Frank Wilson, two of the best recruiters in the nation. Jimbo and Miles don't see eye-to-eye? Jimbo is allowed to look for other jobs behind the scenes, bids farewell to LSU with no hard feelings and Miles hires Crowton who has a fantastic first season running a balanced offensive attack on the road to a BCS Championship. After some great recruiting classes, there is buzz about the lack of playing time for some of the newest players. In 2010, no less than 10 of the newest Tigers see significant playing time and I'm not just talking about playing special teams. Problem solved.

All making any coaching or personnel issues public does is make any coaching job at LSU seem less desirable. Les isn't going to publicly throw any coach or player under the bus, regardless of what fans think or say. To me, that's the definition of "stand-up guy".

Crowton is at the end of his contract. If Miles feels that he can upgrade the position and/or if the position needs new blood, I have no doubt that it will be done. However, it will not be played out in the newspapers and it will be on Miles' own timetable. I have a feeling that because Miles went to bat for Crowton, he was stuck with him until the contract ended this year. Alleva today put some pressure on Miles by publicly stating that any changes in staff or non-changes in staff is solely the discretion of Les Miles.
 
Teams don't consistently win close games because of luck. They win them because of preparation. Please stop buying into every comment those idiots on TV spit out for commentary and weak humor. That "toss over the shoulder" play to the kicker has been very successful for LSU. Guess what? They practice it every week. You can get a few lucky bounces, but only a buffoon would think that could possibly translate into as impressive of a record as Miles has since coming to LSU.

Miles has consistently identified and corrected issues within the program and done so in an extremely classy way. No need to drag coaches through the mud to achieve the desired results. DC issues? Mallory and Peveto both leave the program amicably and Chavis is hired. Problem solved. DJ McCarthy involved in shady recruiting practices? He leaves town in the middle of the night and Miles hires Gonzales and Frank Wilson, two of the best recruiters in the nation. Jimbo and Miles don't see eye-to-eye? Jimbo is allowed to look for other jobs behind the scenes, bids farewell to LSU with no hard feelings and Miles hires Crowton who has a fantastic first season running a balanced offensive attack on the road to a BCS Championship. After some great recruiting classes, there is buzz about the lack of playing time for some of the newest players. In 2010, no less than 10 of the newest Tigers see significant playing time and I'm not just talking about playing special teams. Problem solved.

All making any coaching or personnel issues public does is make any coaching job at LSU seem less desirable. Les isn't going to publicly throw any coach or player under the bus, regardless of what fans think or say. To me, that's the definition of "stand-up guy".

Crowton is at the end of his contract. If Miles feels that he can upgrade the position and/or if the position needs new blood, I have no doubt that it will be done. However, it will not be played out in the newspapers and it will be on Miles' own timetable. I have a feeling that because Miles went to bat for Crowton, he was stuck with him until the contract ended this year. Alleva today put some pressure on Miles by publicly stating that any changes in staff or non-changes in staff is solely the discretion of Les Miles.


I've got no problem with Les being head coach. But if the AD is going to keep his hands off and let Les make all the decisions, Les needs to make them when they are most relevant. Hiring a real defensive coordinator? Should have been done the previous year, before it cost us. Replacing Crowton? Same thing. That's my biggest point. We've basically wasted two years because Les only waited till it was obvious by everyone's standards to either diagnose the problem or make the necessary change. And that is poor management. It's not being efficient. Yes, he's good at many things, but he's terrible at firing someone. He's too loyal to his own detriment.
 
I've got no problem with Les being head coach. But if the AD is going to keep his hands off and let Les make all the decisions, Les needs to make them when they are most relevant. Hiring a real defensive coordinator? Should have been done the previous year, before it cost us. Replacing Crowton? Same thing. That's my biggest point. We've basically wasted two years because Les only waited till it was obvious by everyone's standards to either diagnose the problem or make the necessary change. And that is poor management. It's not being efficient. Yes, he's good at many things, but he's terrible at firing someone. He's too loyal to his own detriment.

It's much easier to say that from our vantage point, especially with hindsight. Take the New York Giants for an example. In 2007, everyone was calling for Tom Coughlin's head. If the Maras had acted when "it was obvious by everyone's standards to either diagnose the problem or make the necessary change", they probably don't win the Super Bowl.

That's not to say we were going to suddenly win a national championship with the co-DCs or with Crowton at OC, just providing an alternate view.
 
The problem is that Les Miles is not a member of a sports forum. If he joined one he would then be given the gift of knowing everything. Then every decision he makes would be the right one the first time, unlike other humans on this planet who rely on intelligence gathering and trial and error.

Quick: Someone shoot him an email or a tweet. There are MILLIONS at stake here!!!111!1
 
It's much easier to say that from our vantage point, especially with hindsight. Take the New York Giants for an example. In 2007, everyone was calling for Tom Coughlin's head. If the Maras had acted when "it was obvious by everyone's standards to either diagnose the problem or make the necessary change", they probably don't win the Super Bowl.

That's not to say we were going to suddenly win a national championship with the co-DCs or with Crowton at OC, just providing an alternate view.

When, if ever, have co-defensive coordinators worked well enough to win a National Championship? And with Crowton, 2008 was not good. 2009 made it a pattern. Did we really need to go further than the first game of 2010 to see that no progress had been made from the previous year, but that we had regressed, much like we regressed from 2007 to 2008, then more from 2008 to 2009? See a pattern? I'm trying very hard not to be sarcastic when it comes to Crowton, but did you see any progress, or anything different, from week to week in 2009? Anything that made you think it would be better in 2010? You know why Crowton wasn't fired at the end of 2009? Because Les had fought to get him a raise at the beggining of 2009. So instead of admitting a mistake, we have 2010 to show for it.
 
When, if ever, have co-defensive coordinators worked well enough to win a National Championship?

When had any team ever lost the last 3 games of the season and go on to win the Super Bowl? The fact it's never been done before doesn't really matter. But even still, Miles did away with it after 1 season.


And with Crowton, 2008 was not good. 2009 made it a pattern. Did we really need to go further than the first game of 2010 to see that no progress had been made from the previous year, but that we had regressed, much like we regressed from 2007 to 2008, then more from 2008 to 2009? See a pattern? I'm trying very hard not to be sarcastic when it comes to Crowton, but did you see any progress, or anything different, from week to week in 2009? Anything that made you think it would be better in 2010? You know why Crowton wasn't fired at the end of 2009? Because Les had fought to get him a raise at the beggining of 2009. So instead of admitting a mistake, we have 2010 to show for it.

In 2008, we had 2 freshmen at QB, neither of which was ready to be a starter. At the end of that season, Jefferson played well enough to get starting consideration the next year. In 2009, we had Jefferson getting his first real playing time. But he was still a sophomore, a very young one at that. 2010 was the first time since 2007 we had an experienced upperclassman at QB. It's hard to place ALL the blame on a coach when you don't have the horses.

Personally, I did see improvement from 2008 to 2009. Jefferson's completion % in 2009 was over 8% higher than Lee's in 2008, his YPA was .30 higher than Lee's, he also had 4 more TDs and 9 fewer INTs. There was definitely reason to think Jefferson would be a top 5 SEC QB this season, what with a full season of starting experience and being a junior. But he regressed, badly.

I haven't been a fan of Crowton's at all, but I can't blame him for the 2008 offense. And if you didn't see improvement from 2008 to 2009 passing-wise, you didn't want to see it.
 
Teams don't consistently win close games because of luck. They win them because of preparation. Please stop buying into every comment those idiots on TV spit out for commentary and weak humor. That "toss over the shoulder" play to the kicker has been very successful for LSU. Guess what? They practice it every week. You can get a few lucky bounces, but only a buffoon would think that could possibly translate into as impressive of a record as Miles has since coming to LSU.

Miles has consistently identified and corrected issues within the program and done so in an extremely classy way. No need to drag coaches through the mud to achieve the desired results. DC issues? Mallory and Peveto both leave the program amicably and Chavis is hired. Problem solved. DJ McCarthy involved in shady recruiting practices? He leaves town in the middle of the night and Miles hires Gonzales and Frank Wilson, two of the best recruiters in the nation. Jimbo and Miles don't see eye-to-eye? Jimbo is allowed to look for other jobs behind the scenes, bids farewell to LSU with no hard feelings and Miles hires Crowton who has a fantastic first season running a balanced offensive attack on the road to a BCS Championship. After some great recruiting classes, there is buzz about the lack of playing time for some of the newest players. In 2010, no less than 10 of the newest Tigers see significant playing time and I'm not just talking about playing special teams. Problem solved.

All making any coaching or personnel issues public does is make any coaching job at LSU seem less desirable. Les isn't going to publicly throw any coach or player under the bus, regardless of what fans think or say. To me, that's the definition of "stand-up guy".

Crowton is at the end of his contract. If Miles feels that he can upgrade the position and/or if the position needs new blood, I have no doubt that it will be done. However, it will not be played out in the newspapers and it will be on Miles' own timetable. I have a feeling that because Miles went to bat for Crowton, he was stuck with him until the contract ended this year. Alleva today put some pressure on Miles by publicly stating that any changes in staff or non-changes in staff is solely the discretion of Les Miles.

I actually think you are both right and both wrong.

1. You can't throw your staff/players under the bus, no one will ever trust you or play for you. MLU is right about that.

2. However LSU fans are extremely passionate, involved and more knowledgable about their program than most colleges. Lack of communication will also sink your ship.

I think the last two presidents illustrate the two contrasting styles mentioned here. Bush did pretty much whatever he could while not spending a lot of time defending his policies and explaining it. Take politics out of this, but realize that did cause some problems. History is not your only judge, but your supporters, staff and everyone depending on you are as well as they need to believe in you. It's clear that wins alone are not enough to win over Les Miles fanbase.

Obama constantly explains his beliefs/policies and is extremely dedicated to communication. However he throws many of his party and on his side under the bus and that's clearly cost him some popularity points as well. Fortunately Les Miles does not throw people under the bus (well most of the time he doesn't anyways.) I like that and respect that about him.

However to pretend there aren't any issues when there very clearly are... will only destroy your credibility and cause people to lose faith in you.

Les Miles clearly is not a great public speaker, who cares? However he does need to create or find some form of communication with the public that reassures them he is aware, on top of it and has a plan we can believe in. It's all about how you phrase things unfortunately as much as I hate it. He should probably hire a public relations guy that can interpret his message in a positive way. He can have little "cyber side" chats like Skip Bertman used to have and provide some background insight into the program.

3. MLU, you do have a point that he has fixed SOME mistakes, but not all. He is also extremely slow to fix those mistakes. And that hesitation has cost him some games and some support. I'm not going to rehash those here, but just offering some suggestions on how he can regain fan support. Like it or not, we're going to be with each other for awhile so we need to find a way to work together. Fans booing our players and him during games will have devastating consequences on the program, so support is necessary. (Not to mention huge alumni donations to people rich alumni can believe is vital to Louisiana and our athletic department and university.) And also our public reputation and image is on the line given that he's the figurehead of the University and probably the highest paid state employee in Louisiana and most famous. We can't be a laughing stock. So he needs to work on selling his program better to the fans and providing better explanations on the problems and more importantly his plans on solving those problems.

It will be hard to do while not throwing anyone under the bus or tipping your madhatter persona to your enemy next week by giving away the gameplan, but more clearly needs to be done. Fans wanted him fired when he was like 7 and 0 this season. THAT'S A PROBLEM!
 

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