Don't expect miracles from a DC or scheme change (1 Viewer)

[chameleonknight]

We don't need to expect a top 10 defense or something similar to the Dome Patrol, all we need is a mid tier defense, a revitalized commitment to the run game, and a deep playoff run if not an outright championship run is assured. A top defense would be an absolute unexpected bonus.

I think 99% of Saints fans can agree on this point. This is about as common sense as it gets.

To the OP, I think you're getting bashed a bit here; your point of our defense still having the same players is true. The defensive secondary is especially concerning; however, many posters on this board have been screaming for a 3-4 alignment for a while. Guys like Junior, Tez, Cam Jordan, Hicks are all made to excel in a 3-4 defense. Sean Payton sounded 100% believable to me when he said he and Loomis have been considering this switch for a while, because it was WRITTEN ALL OVER OUR DRAFT PICKS!! This is good news!!
We are finally seeing the fruition of implementing all these young playmakers.

 

[Magnus]

A good defensive coordinator still wont make bad players good, but he can make every player a little bit better by putting them in the best position to succeed.

Kind of like beating the defending Super Bowl champs in their building with David Bowens as the captain of your defense?

 

[meily]

I think that we might be set at nickel with corey white and Mack but i do think that we need a new starting RCB after how poorly Patrick Robinson perfromed last season.

We need CBs who don't shy away from contact in run support like Drew Thomas. He had 87 tackles last year alone in 12 games!


Guys like

Cb Sanders Commings (6-2 216)
CB Prentiss Wagner (6-2 195)
&
SS Cooper Taylor (6-5 230)

Could give us the size of the Seahawks secondary and would be a matchup nightmare in the south!

I don't know if you read the reports but Shanle himself responded to the Spags firing by saying he was asking things of the players (himself included) that made they were not comfortable with...Shake when in to add that 14yrs I. The league and playing for 4 defensive coordinates and Spags defensive request were puzzling....I say all that to say, the players we bash Robinson, Harper, Jenkins all but Robinson was a 90-100tkle guy...Robinson again lead the team in Interceptions which tells me they have the talent and it showed up more often than not but a lot of players were not comfortable playing in that defense and it showed more often than not...we have talent in the secondary..we need to as Payton admitted play them to their strengths and he used Harper and Wilson as examples.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

I don't know if you read the reports but Shanle himself responded to the Spags firing by saying he was asking things of the players (himself included) that made they were not comfortable with...Shake when in to add that 14yrs I. The league and playing for 4 defensive coordinates and Spags defensive request were puzzling....I say all that to say, the players we bash Robinson, Harper, Jenkins all but Robinson was a 90-100tkle guy...Robinson again lead the team in Interceptions which tells me they have the talent and it showed up more often than not but a lot of players were not comfortable playing in that defense and it showed more often than not...we have talent in the secondary..we need to as Payton admitted play them to their strengths and he used Harper and Wilson as examples.

Im sorry but im don't with robinson. I don't have the time right now to check but it wouldn't surprise me if most of robinsons tackles were made up field because he certainly looked like a roller coaster all season long. Im done with him.

I agree with you about Harper.

 

[meily]

Im sorry but im don't with robinson. I don't have the time right now to check but it wouldn't surprise me if most of robinsons tackles were made up field because he certainly looked like a roller coaster all season long. Im done with him.

I agree with you about Harper.

I understand....but I just think those blown assignments weren't because of talent and the talented guys continued to makes plays despite their unfamiliarity with their coordinates scheme and request. the olayers we need to turn this around are already on the roster, we need to part with yesterday's stars (Vilma, Smith, Ellis and Shanle) and introduce the new ones (Wilson, Galette, Jordan, Hicks and Rookie NT)...the secondary will hold up by playing more man defense (playing to their strengths).

 

[bclemms]

Where did you pull that info about #8 from? A bad D coordinator only calls 1 or 2 bad plays less than a good D coordinator? Come again? You just plain made that up as you were typing. You're right about one thing though, a good coordinator will find a way to get his best players on the field and build a scheme around his talent. Spags was hell bent on running his system which requires 3 pro bowl DEs to be successful. I don't even know why he was hired in the first place. We simply don't have a pass rush for his type of defense to work.

Of course I was guestimating. There aren't any bad play call statistics. I'm just saying if a defense that gives up 28 points a game has a defensive coordinator make the perfect play call resulting in a turnover or sack on 3rd down a couple times a game and a terrible play call that results in a big play or TD twice a game then it is a huge swing.

Lets say our new defensive coordinator calls the perfect coverage once a game that results in a turnover and a perfect blitz that results in a sack once a game compared to Spags. Then the new coordinator calls two plays in the game that result in an incompletion on 3rd down instead of a 30 yard play that leads to a FG and a blown coverage that leads to a TD.

Suddenly the defense is giving up 18 points a game. Our third down percentage is about 15% lower, we allow about 120 less yards per game, force 16 more turnovers and have 16 more sacks than we did this season with Spags. Just those few plays a game makes a huge swing. We suddenly go statistically from the worst defense in history to a top 15 defense in just about every stat and that is without even changing players. If you add some talent, patch holes and get players to really buy into a physical style then you are talking about moving into the top 10 or better.

 

[bclemms]

I think 99% of Saints fans can agree on this point. This is about as common sense as it gets.

To the OP, I think you're getting bashed a bit here; your point of our defense still having the same players is true. The defensive secondary is especially concerning; however, many posters on this board have been screaming for a 3-4 alignment for a while. Guys like Junior, Tez, Cam Jordan, Hicks are all made to excel in a 3-4 defense. Sean Payton sounded 100% believable to me when he said he and Loomis have been considering this switch for a while, because it was WRITTEN ALL OVER OUR DRAFT PICKS!! This is good news!!
We are finally seeing the fruition of implementing all these young playmakers.

No doubt this is good news. I've been begging for a 34 for the last two seasons. Wished we had the players to run a 34 for a couple seasons before that. I'm super excited about Spags being fired, I doubt you find a bigger critic of him on the board and that goes way back. I've also been a huge Junior fan and been screaming for Will Smith to be benched or flat out cut since October. The firing of Spags and moving to a 34 is exactly what I've been dreaming about.

I also don't think anyone on this board thinks we should move forward with the same players we have in place. I know everyone understands that we need better talent. I'm not being a downer, simply stating the obvious. I hope Payton is far from done. Oustside of Junior, Wilson, Bush, IAQ, Hicks, Jordan and Lofton there isn't a player on the defense whose job is safe in my mind. Obviously it makes little sense to cut some players because of contracts and we can't cut players unless we can find a better replacement for similar money because of the cap.

I think switching coordinators and schemes will instantly make us a better team but it can't stop there. Without a good draft, dumping a few veterans, finding a couple guys in free agency that can make and impact and getting the production we think we will get out of guys like Martez Wilson I think it is silly to expect a great defense. The good news is the first part of the equation has been addressed. Now we need to find a good coordinator that the players will buy into. Then we have to address some needs in free agency. I hope the first thing we address is OT so we can get it out of the way and focus on nothing but the defense. Improving the defense is pointless if Brees gets killed in week 1 as a result of bad OT play.

It is so nice having a coach like Payton who came right back in and starts laying down the law. It is nice having a coach that recognizes what the team needs and lets nothing stay in the way of getting there. In Payton I trust. He will get us there.

 

[Alan]

With respect to the majority of opinions, I expect no less than top 10 in defense.

My reasoning comes from the fact that;

1) Sean Payton is back.
2) We are changing alignment.
3) I envision some of those plays we remember from the Dome Patrol.

1 -- Sean can adjust the offense based on how the defense is responding to the opposition.
A) -- Air it out.
B) -- Ground, pound, control.

2 -- The 3-4 alignment is better suited to blitz. (My opinion)

3 -- We actually have a lot of raw talent that needs to be turned loose and let them play.


I am a firm believer that had Sean been here this past season then we would have made it to the playoffs. I also believe that our defense would have been middle of the road and our alignment would be stuck in the 4-3. (spags would not have been fired)

 

[bclemms]

I am a firm believer that had Sean been here this past season then we would have made it to the playoffs. I also believe that our defense would have been middle of the road and our alignment would be stuck in the 4-3. (spags would not have been fired)

This is an interesting point. If that is the case and we would have been one and one in the playoffs then in the long run the 2012 season may have been worth it. I'm 100% sure that the 3-4 scheme along with just about any coordinator other than Spags and we have a very real chance of winning the Super Bowl each and every year.

If last season Payton wasn't suspended, we were one and done then likely Spags isn't gone we may not be making the wholesale changes on defense. Guys like Wilson and Junior would never get to shine and we could be stuck in a rut never really getting better.

Obviously I wouldn't wish the 2012 season on anyone except the Falcons but it might be the first time I can see the silver lining. Who knows what would have happened but wouldn't it be awesome to look back in 5 years and say the bountygate crap tanked our 2012 season but as a result Payton made the changes that resulted in us winning the next 2-3 Super Bowls.

 

[bclemms]

same thing those other 26 ppl disagreed with...

So you don't think we should make any roster moves next season and hiring a new coordinator and switching to a 34 is enough to win a Super Bowl?

 

[Cajun Chat]

To OP, good job. All of you getting your panties in a wad need to chill out. I think SP said just as much when he spoke of his conversation with Bill Parcells. Just because your are back doesn't make you a 10 plus win team again. SP realizes there is much work to be done. I think getting rid of Spags was unfortunate but the right move.

To many of you saying we just need to be a top 15 team defensively, I agree.

Going to the middle of the back from waaaaaayyy far back would be dramatic improvement. Let's start there.

 

[crawfish2010]

The Saints just need a below average defense that does something well.

 

[guillermo]

I do agree with BClemms premise that changing the scheme will not suddenly turn around the results. At the end we are switching the front 7, and whoever comes will have the priority to put order in our secondary.

Now that the switch has been decided, more then ever I think we need center fielder with the knowledge and leadership to put our always confused secondary to play where they should.

I like the idea of Mangini coming to coach our defensive backs (not to be our coordinator though).

I want a front 7 specialist (mostly a linebacker coach) to coordinate our defense, but I want him also to recognize that we have been killed by the big play. If we can avoid those 2 or 3 we have been suffering for the last couple of seasons, then we are in more then a good start.

 

[jerryrip]

Some people just always look at the glass half empty I suppose.

 

[bclemms]

Some people just always look at the glass half empty I suppose.

Some people just don't know how to read I suppose.

Spags being fired and moving to a 34 is what I've been wanting for a very long time. Glass is not half empty. If you think we don't need to improve the talent on defense or find a coordinator that can put our players in the best position to succeed and bring the fundamentals like tackling back to our defense then just say so.



From October

Have to disagree, Wilson and Junior are pretty much ideal players in the 34. Bunkley would be a great NT and Hicks could spell him as well as be the guy in passing situations. Tyrann Walker is probably best suited as a 34 DE. The guy played end in college and is a bit undersized for a 43 DT. At 6-3 294 he has the size and pass rushing skills to be a stud. Then you also have Tom Johnson and Sedrick Ellis who could take snaps as well. Hicks could also be a force as a 34 end with his size/speed similar to Calais Campbell.

http://saintsreport.com/forums/f2/giants-4-3-vs-niners-3-4-a-262047/