Flint Michigan (1 Viewer)

[JimEverett]

From what I was reading in the Flint papers, it seems it is the salt and saline issue from the Flint river that is the issue. Once that was released into the pipes, the protective layer of minerals or whatever lines old pipes was destroyed. That flint water, now that it had eaten through the protective layer was now starting to dissolve the lead oxidation on the inner walls of the pipes and then loading up on it.

Problem is now that they can flush the pipes, but that protective layer will take a while to rebuild and feline the pipes so the water is safe again.

As far as the cost it would've cost about 100/day to treat the salt issue, but they were trying to cut corners so they didn't do it. This would've solved any issue before it started.

Nothing like penny pinching an issue

Where are you getting that "they" were trying to cut corners? Who is "they" and how did they know it was a problem fixed for $100 a day?

 

[SharonT]

Where are you getting that "they" were trying to cut corners? Who is "they" and how did they know it was a problem fixed for $100 a day?

I'm pretty sure links were posted. Here's one source:

In April of 2014, Flint switched its water source from Detroit to the Flint River in an effort to save money. The decision, made by emergency manager Darnell Earley, was met with skepticism: Residents complained that the water was smelly and cloudy. Water tests have since shown high levels of lead, copper, and other bacteria, including E. coli. (GM started hauling in water to its remaining Flint plant last year after noticing that the Flint water was corroding engines.)

Under a controversial law passed by Republican Gov. Rick Snyder, who has been criticized for close ties with the Koch-funded American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), the state can now appoint emergency managers with the ability to override local policies and make sweeping decisions in the name of "fiscal responsibility"—a policy that stripped half of the state's black residents of their voting rights.

Still looking for that $100 a day mention. They were getting "good" water from Detroit, prior.

 

[SharonT]

Looks like the residents knew the water was bad from day one, but have been unable to get anyone to take action.
Republicans Trashed Democracy in Michigan. Now They Want To Trash It in Your State, Too. | Mother Jones

McClinton recounts how the city council recently voted to "do all things necessary" to get Detroit's water back. The emergency manager, however, immediately overrode their decision, terming it "incomprehensible."

"This is a whole different model of control," she comments dryly and explains that she's now working with other residents to file an injunction compelling the city to return to the use of Detroit's water. One problem, though: it has to be filed in Ingham County, home to Lansing, the state capital, rather than in Flint's Genesee County, because the decision of a state-appointed emergency manager is being challenged. "Under state rule, that's where you go to redress grievances," she says. "Just another undermining of our local authority."

and

And here's one fact of life in Michigan: emergency management is normally only imposed on majority-black cities. From 2013 to 2014, 52 percent of the African American residents in the state lived under emergency management, compared to only 2 percent of white residents. And yet the repeal vote against the previous version of the act was a demographic landslide: 75 out of 83 counties voted to nix the legislation, including all of Michigan's northern, overwhelmingly white, rural counties. "I think people just internalized that P.A. 4 was undemocratic," Bellant says.

If the Governor anoints the Emergency Manager, who does not answer to the citizens and does not have to follow policy or protocol...good luck trying to pass the buck on this one.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...amination-mdeq-pollutants-water-safety-health

(Michigan Department of Environmental Quality) staff employed a federal protocol they believed was appropriate, and it was not. The water testing steps followed would have been correct for a city less than 50,000 people, but not for a city of nearly 100,000.”

So, the EM blames MDEQ for not insisting it implement the corrosion control system. (EM rebuffs every other suggestion, but would surely have followed this one! Right!) But would that system do anything for the "E. coli and fecal bacteria in the water, as well as high levels of trihalomethanes, a carcinogenic chemical cocktail known as THMs"?

 

[JimEverett]

I'm pretty sure links were posted. Here's one source:





Still looking for that $100 a day mention. They were getting "good" water from Detroit, prior.

The problem with such reporting is that there is absolutely nothing I have seen or heard that supports such an idea.

This sort of reporting indicates that the Emergency Manager came in and made a decision to switch from Detroit water to Flint River water in an effort to save a few bucks. But that is clearly not true, and has been discussed in the thread. Detroit gave Flint one year to find a new source of water after the Flint City Council (not the Emergency Manager) voted to join a newly formed water district.

 

[dtc]

Yeah, but with all those corporate tax breaks, businesses and workers have to be lined up to get in there.

I wonder if they make bootstraps big enough to reach the moon?

 

[dtc]

Want to really be terrified? Most of the service lines for natural gas running under our major cities are a century old and cast iron. And they are failing at an increasing rate.

Look out below: Danger lurks underground from aging gas pipes

A good friend of mine runs the pumping operation for NG in this area. He says they pump probably twice as much gas into the hole as they get paid for because half or more is leaking into old crummy pipes.

 

[SharonT]

The problem with such reporting is that there is absolutely nothing I have seen or heard that supports such an idea.

This sort of reporting indicates that the Emergency Manager came in and made a decision to switch from Detroit water to Flint River water in an effort to save a few bucks. But that is clearly not true, and has been discussed in the thread. Detroit gave Flint one year to find a new source of water after the Flint City Council (not the Emergency Manager) voted to join a newly formed water district.

From what I am reading, the Flint City Council's actions are almost irrelevant. The city of Flint has been under direct control of the state since 2011. The local residents and (symbolic) elected council have been going through hoops trying to appeal the decision for a while now, and had to refile the lawsuit in the state capital's county.

Pretty rich, trying to blame the people who actually live there and have to deal with (and still pay $100-200 per month for) bad water with no recourse.

 

[JimEverett]

From what I am reading, the Flint City Council's actions are almost irrelevant. The city of Flint has been under direct control of the state since 2011. The local residents and (symbolic) elected council have been going through hoops trying to appeal the decision for a while now, and had to refile the lawsuit in the state capital's county.

Pretty rich, trying to blame the people who actually live there and have to deal with (and still pay $100-200 per month for) bad water with no recourse.

I do not know if the City Council's votes are irrelevant - what are you reading that says they are irrelevant? Both the Council and the mayor, all elected entities, pushed for the move to the new water district. And all were aware of Detroit's opposition and the threat that Detroit would end the contract. I understand there is the question of whether having the State Treasurer and State-appointed Emergency Manager approve any such moves is prudent or fair - but on this particular issue there does not appear to be any functional difference.
The point, though, still stands - the basis of reporting that the Emergency Manager made the decision to switch to Flint River as a source appears to be misinformed.

 

[SharonT]

When I first heard "Emergency Manager" I thought it was equivalent to hurricane prep officials or such. Maybe that's what has you confused.

Wiki (sorry) but you can confirm through links. This supports everything written by the people of Flint blogging/tweeting. (No idea what is being reported on TV.)

Emergency Manager

An emergency manager, formerly emergency financial manager, is an official appointed by the Governor to take control of a local government under a financial emergency. A manager temporarily supplants the governing body, chief executive officer and/or chief administrative officer of the local government with the ability to remove any of the unit's elected officials. Managers have complete control over the local unit with the ability to reduce pay, outsource work, reorganize departments and modify employee contracts.<sup id="cite_ref-fj3_28-0" class="reference">[28]</sup>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_emergency_in_Michigan#Public_Act_4_of_2011

What's really sad and scary is the people of Michigan (rich poor black white urban farmers) voted to repeal this draconian concept...and boom, the state legislature enacted a stronger version which is not subject to voter action. Incredible.

 

[Tapxe]

This should make American media ashamed or at least American's ashamed of their media.

Al Jazeera's reporting on the Flint Water Crisis | Al Jazeera America

Edit: Note the date of this report.

 

[Tapxe]

Not surprising...

Newly Leaked Emails Indicate Michigan Republicans Didn

However, question marks are already emerging from the conventional explanation for the switch &#8211; that is, to save $2 million by selling polluted water to Flint residents. Journalist Steve Neavling of the independent newspaper, Motor City Muckraker, believes that the water pipes were not switched in order to save money, thanks to the release of a new email which appears to indicate that the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD) offered Snyder a deal worth $800 million over 30 years, which would have been 20% cheaper than switching to the polluted Karegnondi Water Authority.

MCM also reports that &#8220;A high-ranking DWSD official told us today that Detroit offered a 50% reduction over what Flint had been paying Detroit. In fact, documents show that DWSD made at least six proposals to Flint, saying &#8220;the KWA pipeline can only be attributed to a &#8216;political&#8217; objective that has nothing to do with the delivery &#8211; or the price &#8211; of water.&#8221; The deal was signed in 2013, and Governor Snyder refuses to release the emails from this period &#8211; refusing to offer up the paper trail of how, exactly this decision was made.

More poor governing in order to privatize government operations to cronies for profit?

 

[SharonT]

LOL!!! I guess there is a concerted effort to downplay the lead poisoning, question the findings, blame Flint residents or 'the government' or just keep lobbing misdirects in hopes of creating some side squabble. And we thought we were special here.

Down the corporatist rabbit hole: ALEC blames #FlintWaterCrisis on retired city workers (aka union thugs)By Eclectablog on <abbr class="date time published" title="2016-01-22T18:18:24-0500">January 22, 2016</abbr> in Corporatism, Flint
The corporatist network is now circling the wagons around Michigan Governor Rick Snyder over his administration&#8217;s poisoning of Flint&#8217;s drinking water. This time it&#8217;s none other than the American Legislative Exchange Council. It&#8217;s not the Snyder administration that&#8217;s responsible, they say, it&#8217;s the retired city workers and their blood-sucking union pensions that are to blame:

Rest of article: 1/22/2016 Eclectablog.com (Out of Michigan)

Trace back the pension thing, and you'll find recent sweet deals that don't benefit the retiree or state. Thanks, corporate reformers!

 

[Tapxe]

LOL!!! I guess there is a concerted effort to downplay the lead poisoning, question the findings, blame Flint residents or 'the government' or just keep lobbing misdirects in hopes of creating some side squabble. And we thought we were special here.

Rest of article: 1/22/2016 Eclectablog.com (Out of Michigan)

Trace back the pension thing, and you'll find recent sweet deals that don't benefit the retiree or state. Thanks, corporate reformers!

Let’s not forget the reason why local authorities felt the need to find a cheaper water source: Flint is broke and its desperately poor citizens can’t afford higher taxes

They are desperately poor? Maybe they need higher wages which by the way raises tax revenue without raising the tax rate.

 

[JackDiesel]

Ok so let me see if I got this straight. A city of 100,000 people managed by democrats gets itself into a $48.1 million deficit (shocker). A Republican governor appoints to Emergency Manager, democrat Darnell Earley, to try and get the situation under control.

During his time as EM the city went ahead with the water switch, which according to Earley, was already made prior to his arrival.

"It did not fall to me to second guess or to invalidate the actions that were taken prior to my appointment," he said in a statement.

A switch that was also celebrated by the then Democratic mayor.

And the governor is being painted as the main culprit? Go figure.

 

[Tapxe]

Ok so let me see if I got this straight. A city of 100,000 people managed by democrats gets itself into a $48.1 million deficit (shocker). A Republican governor appoints to Emergency Manager, democrat Darnell Earley, to try and get the situation under control.

During his time as EM the city went ahead with the water switch, which according to Earley, was already made prior to his arrival.

A switch that was also celebrated by the then Democratic mayor.

And the governor is being painted as the main culprit? Go figure.

What people are upset with and the reason the governor is at issue is that it was ignored or covered up once the problems were noticed and reported. Now you have people poisoned and paying for useless water.