Ingram Post from Reddit - Interesting (1 Viewer)

[Blessedog]

Seems to be the Reddit versoin of Bclemms.

LINK: https://www.reddit.com/r/Saints/comments/5acrcr/a_little_statistical_analysis_on_mark_ingram/

Just wanted to share this with you guys and spark some conversation.

A lot of folks around here are suddenly acting like Mark Ingram is Trent Richardson, which obviously isn't the case. Here's a little analysis to put that to rest.

Fumbles
Even when we include the two fumbles in his last two games, Mark Ingram has always been very reliable with the ball. In fact, of all RBs with at least 800 rush attempts since 2011, he ranks 6th best in the league at fumbles per touch (includes receptions), fumbling less than once per 100 touches.
Let's not forget that HIGHTOWER ALSO FUMBLED YESTERDAY. It got nullified by a penalty on Seattle, and his knee might have been down (there was obviously no review due to the penalty), but if you're worried about Ingram's ball security, that issue obviously isn't instantly wiped away. We played two of the best teams in the league in terms of forcing fumbles the last two weeks. Stuff happens.

Stuffs

Hightower was stopped for no gain or a loss on 5 carries yesterday, and was stopped for 1 yard or less on 8 carries.
Ingram has not eclipsed either of those numbers in any game this year. In 6 games this year, he's never had more than 2 carries for no gain or less and never had more than 4 carries for 1 yard or less.

Goal Line

Hightower had 7 rushes and one target inside the opponent's 5 yard line yesterday with no touchdowns (although one did result in a first down). On 4 rushes/targets inside the 5 this year for Ingram, he's converted 3 times.
Since 2014, Ingram's 14 TD runs/catches inside the opponents 5 yard line put him behind only Jeremy Hill over that span.

Efficiency

Since 2014, Ingram is 10th among active rushers with at least 300 carries in yards per attempt, at 4.31. He is 7th among active rushers in rushing TDs. Over that same span he also averages 87 yards from scrimmage per game, which amounts to 9th best among active RBs.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

It means we've been overreacting. I think Sean made a good decision to bench Ingram and see what Hightower could do yesterday. Ingram had a couple really huge mistakes in the past couple games and needed a wake up call. That said, I don't think Hightower played so well that Ingram should be out of a job. He played well, but I think this week's game just strengthened the notion that we need to commit to the run even when we're behind. Ingram is a good back and is a major contributor in this offense. I do think Hightower has earned his share of carries, though, and using him a bit more often would undoubtedly help deter Ingram's habit of getting injured. Daniel Lasco has also shown some promise and has been brilliant on special teams so I'm excited to see his career unfold.

Another poster replied and said that the biggest criticism with Ingram is the lack of explosive plays and him being above average but not top tier. I think this is the biggest gripe with Ingram on this board and I am also in that camp. Solid, does his job, but just not explosive enough to rip off the huge play. I just wanted to share this with you guys. Not meant to start an Ingram vs Hightower debate though.

 

[cd12holden]

He'll be back with a vengeance

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

David Robbins probably

 

[DaveXA]

I personally don't think Ingram is going anywhere the rest of this season. I think we should go ahead and start Hightower and spell him with Ingram and Lasco. Hightower is no spring chicken so I'm sure the coaches will manage his snaps so we don't tire him out before the end of the season.

Despite Ingram's fumbling the last 2 weeks, which I really think is an anomaly, he'll get his chance for redemption, but I don't think he should start, or even play a lot of snaps. Just spell Hightower when needed and hope he'll get his confidence back.

I think most of us here want him to do well, but are frustrated with his lack of burst and of course his recent fumbling issue. Curious to see how Payton handles it.

 

[You]

At the right price, he can be a good piece to an overall run game

 

[TechDawg09]

Eh, he'll be fine. He's a great back for Payton's system (solid runner, blocker, and receiver). He's usually good with ball security, and he's responded well to being benched in the past. I don't think Payton will keep him on the sideline for too long.. Just had to get his point across, and the guys behind him aren't too awful.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

It is what it is.

 

[DaveXA]

It is what it is.

And what exactly is is?

 

[Domefan504]

Eh, he'll be fine. He's a great back for Payton's system (solid runner, blocker, and receiver). He's usually good with ball security, and he's responded well to being benched in the past. I don't think Payton will keep him on the sideline for too long.. Just had to get his point across, and the guys behind him aren't too awful.

But his low performances are getting more and more frequent. At some point you have to pull the plug and say enough. Tim Hightower was finding rooming room. That is what Ingram should be doing.

 

[BroKV]

Hightower had the hot hand yesterday. It was the right play with or without the fumble.

 

[nolafan33]

I personally think the people who believe Hightower is the better back is crazy. Ingram just needs to get his fumbles fixed, which as the op stated, have never been a problem before the last two weeks.

 

[Eman5805]

Seems to me that the big thing on the table here is speed.

Ingram isn't fast. He has a great 10 yard split. But he doesn't burn people. Leave them in the dust on the way to a 40 yard touchdown run, shaking people, stiff arming, etc.

Hightower seems to have more of that ability. And Lasco certainly is a great athlete.

But Ingram isn't. If he was, if he had more big energizing runs, he'd be looked upon more favorably.

Just how I see it.

 

[AL_Bundy]

Seems to me that the big thing on the table here is speed.

Ingram isn't fast. He has a great 10 yard split. But he doesn't burn people. Leave them in the dust on the way to a 40 yard touchdown run, shaking people, stiff arming, etc.

Hightower seems to have more of that ability. And Lasco certainly is a great athlete.

But Ingram isn't. If he was, if he had more big energizing runs, he'd be looked upon more favorably.

Just how I see it.

Exactly

 

[Joodas Avila]

Benching Mark for the game and putting Hightower in was a great move by Payton. getting familiar with Ingram over the last few season, and listening to him talk in interviews leads me to believe that he'll respond in a big way. He had football literally taken away from him on Sunday, on account of his mistakes.

Being a coach/trainer(wrestling/jiu jitsu) myself, that's how you light a fire under someone who been preforming way below their skill level. Usually, it's because the athlete is trying way too hard, pressing, and thinking way too much, rather than reacting and responding to the ebb and flow of whats happening around him/her.

By the way, lets be real...I loved how Hightower came in and balled, but he didnt exactly do much other than get 100 yards on 26 carries. 26 CARRIES! Not hating, just stating facts. He got jacked on every single touch on the goalline. That's not comforting at all.

For some reason, people love to hate the hell out of Mark Ingram. Everything bad, is overblown to the extreme. While the good things he's done, and been doing for years, are taken for granted and brushed to the side. Contrary to foolish belief, he's not costing us games. Drew threw pick 6's, our D failed to get stops on countless drives, etc. etc. Blaming Ingram is just hate from thin skinned "fans" who already hated him to begin with.

I'm pretty sure that if Ingram had 26 carries vs the 12-15 a game, he'd clock a 100 yards a game too. Heck, any RB in the NFL can get a 100 on that many carries. As for "explosive plays" this isnt Madden where dudes average 7 plus yards a clip, thats impossible. Most RBs are rhythm runners, and Hightower was allowed to get into one on Sun. 3, 4, 5, no gain here, a negative play there, and the occasional 10 plus run is normal. Some folks just have pipe dream expectations for players.

I think Payton may have just awakened a sleeping giant. I hope Ingram responds as such.

 

[DaveXA]

But his low performances are getting more and more frequent.

I'd like to see support for this, and please don't say he doesn't pass the eyeball test.