Ingram benched [OLD THREAD BUMPED] (2 Viewers)

[kcirdor]

Whats it been? 6 years now?

5 years of Ingram = the 5th over all Back in Saints history. This year he will be closing in on #2. Oh but don't let facts get in the way.

 

[kcirdor]

Benching Mark for the game and putting Hightower in was a great move by Payton. getting familiar with Ingram over the last few season, and listening to him talk in interviews leads me to believe that he'll respond in a big way. He had football literally taken away from him on Sunday, on account of his mistakes.

Being a coach/trainer(wrestling/jiu jitsu) myself, that's how you light a fire under someone who been preforming way below their skill level. Usually, it's because the athlete is trying way too hard, pressing, and thinking way too much, rather than reacting and responding to the ebb and flow of whats happening around him/her.

By the way, lets be real...I loved how Hightower came in and balled, but he didnt exactly do much other than get 100 yards on 26 carries. 26 CARRIES! Not hating, just stating facts. He got jacked on every single touch on the goalline. That's not comforting at all.

For some reason, people love to hate the hell out of Mark Ingram. Everything bad, is overblown to the extreme. While the good things he's done, and been doing for years, are taken for granted and brushed to the side. Contrary to foolish belief, he's not costing us games. Drew threw pick 6's, our D failed to get stops on countless drives, etc. etc. Blaming Ingram is just hate from thin skinned "fans" who already hated him to begin with.

I'm pretty sure that if Ingram had 26 carries vs the 12-15 a game, he'd clock a 100 yards a game too. Heck, any RB in the NFL can get a 100 on that many carries. As for "explosive plays" this isnt Madden where dudes average 7 plus yards a clip, thats impossible. Most RBs are rhythm runners, and Hightower was allowed to get into one on Sun. 3, 4, 5, no gain here, a negative play there, and the occasional 10 plus run is normal. Some folks just have pipe dream expectations for players.

I think Payton may have just awakened a sleeping giant. I hope Ingram responds as such.

At least some folks understand.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Don't you put that evil on me....

I am bulk ordering popcorn for when Payton starts Ingram again. I can get you some and we can watch this place burn together

 

[blackadder]

The first two years Ingram was there, the Saints ran a power scheme. They switched to a zone an his YPC improved. Furthermore, a rb is only as good as the line in front of them and NO OL is not designed to open hoiles, just protect Brees. NO is also not a run first team as we all know. Therefore, the game is never going to be schemed to maximize the run just set up the pass and keep 8 out of the box.

All of that is true and Ingram might be more effective in a run first scheme where he builds rhythm and breaks runs later in the game. But we've all watched long enough to clearly see what his limitations are and what his game is, and he's not a home run hitter behind any kind of line.

 

[bclemms]

Just for the record. If Ingram plays Sunday he'll have a massive game. He'll have a massive game because everyone has a massive game against the 49ers run defense.

The Niners run defense is allowed 185 yards rushing and 5.1 ypc, both league worsts by a mile.

The last 2 times Ingram faced the 32nd ranked run defense was against Green Bay at home in prime time. He went 24 carries for 172 yards. The Packers run defense was so bad that after that game they actually moved one of the best pass rushers in the league to MLB and sacrificed their pass rush the rest of the season.

The other time was against Dallas in 2013. They were the worst ranked run defense coming in and had 6 starters and role players in their front 7 out of the game. Once again, at home in prime time. Ingram went for 14 carries and 145 yards. Dudes really good when nobody touches him.

This is what the last few RB's have done against the 49ers run defense.
Jaquizz Rodgers 26 carries, 154 yards
Shady McCoy- 19 carries, 140 yards, 3 TD
Ezekiel Elliot- 23 carries, 138 yards, 1 TD
David Johnson- 27 carries, 157 yards, 2 TD
Christine Michel- 20 carries, 106 yards, 2 TD
Fozzy Whitaker- 16 carries, 100 yards

So yeah, the Niners can't stack the box against Brees like they did against Buffalo, Dallas and Tampa. Whoever gets the carries is going to have themselves a game. Honestly, Lasco is probably best suited to destroy that defense since he has the most speed to take advantage of getting free releases to the 2nd level all day.

 

[kcirdor]

Just for the Record, if Ingram doesn't fumble vs the Seahawks, he runs 26 times for 102+ and scores on the goal line. But you know let's try to preemptively diminish success that hasn't even happened yet just so we can cover our bases and say "told ya so."

 

[bclemms]

Just for the Record, if Ingram doesn't fumble vs the Seahawks, he runs 26 times for 102+ and scores on the goal line. But you know let's try to preemptively diminish success that hasn't even happened yet just so we can cover our bases and say "told ya so."

So you are saying the Niners defense is on par with the Seahawks defense?

Again, doesn't matter who plays, they'll have a huge game. The Niners have given up 6 100 yard rushers in a row.

Here is the average stat line they've allowed to the lead rusher in the last 6 games.
22 carries, 133 yards, 6 yards per carry, 1.33 TD

So I wouldn't call it preemptive, I'd just call it not dumb. It's kind of like teams that were coming in to face the Saints defense in the dome. Pretty safe bet that regardless who the QB is, they'd have themselves a game.

Besides, like I said, it wont matter who totes the rock. If it's Hightower he'll have a huge game. If it's Ingram, he'll have a huge game. If it's Lasco, he'll have a huge game. If it's all 3 then they'll all have good games. It could be any of them because they've all been average at best. Like I've said since the beginning of the season, RB is one of our weakest positions on the roster which is fairly ironic since we carry more than any team in the league.

It's also a large presumption that Ingram would have gotten to 100 or scored since he's only managed to average 4 yards per carry in 2/7 games this season and hasn't had a 100 yard game in over a year.

 

[kcirdor]

So you are saying the Niners defense is on par with the Seahawks defense?

Yea, because what I said sounded exactly like that. Sorry bro. Sounds like what you are saying is, it doesn't matter who starts any game long as the Offensive Line does there job they will perform. So it doesn't matter who did what vs the Seahawks because they would have had a similar game. Makes sense. Glad our Oline is finally healthy.

 

[bclemms]

Yea, because what I said sounded exactly like that. Sorry bro. Sounds like what you are saying is, it doesn't matter who starts any game long as the Offensive Line does there job they will perform. So it doesn't matter who did what vs the Seahawks because they would have had a similar game. Makes sense. Glad our Oline is finally healthy.

Actually, you don't even need a good offensive line to do it against the Niners run defense. Average line, average back and you'll get 100 yards. Hell, Jaquiz Rodgers, Christine Michel and Fozzy Whitaker got to 100 against the Niners. Want a fun fact? Those 3 backs have combined for (4) 100 yard career games, (3) of which came against the Niners in the last 6 weeks.

That's 149 career games combined, (4) 100 yard rushing games and (3) of them in the last 6 weeks against the same team. How does that not tell something?

 

[kcirdor]

No, you can't have it one way for one game and totally different for another game. Bottom Line is if the Oline performs like it did vs the Seahawks any back rushes 26 times for 102 yards. Add to it, the fact that we kept the Seahawks defense on the field for a long time yesterday. This is what happens when we finally commit to the running game instead of giving up after short yardage on first down.

To be clear, you can't apply your line of thinking about the 49ers without simultaneously applying it to the Seahawks.

 

[superchuck500]

I'd love back-to-back 100 yard games and I wouldn't care who's carrying it or whether it was because they're bad. It would likely mean that we're productive and hopefully that means we win . . . cause that's all I give a crap about right now.

 

[DaveXA]

I'd love back-to-back 100 yard games and I wouldn't care who's carrying it or whether it was because they're bad. It would likely mean that we're productive and hopefully that means we win . . . cause that's all I give a crap about right now.

Exactly how I feel.

 

[Twenty]

It's also a large presumption that Ingram would have gotten to 100 or scored since he's only managed to average 4 yards per carry in 2/7 games this season and hasn't had a 100 yard game in over a year.

Sunday will also mark a full calendar year since Ingram ran the ball 20 times in a game. In that year, he's averaged about 11 carries per game.

Ingram is a back that wears down defenses, he's shown it time and time again in his career. But for whatever reason, Payton refuses to give him the ball 20-25 times a game.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

All of that is true and Ingram might be more effective in a run first scheme where he builds rhythm and breaks runs later in the game. But we've all watched long enough to clearly see what his limitations are and what his game is, and he's not a home run hitter behind any kind of line.

But saying this makes too much sense.

 

[DaveXA]

Sunday will also mark a full calendar year since Ingram ran the ball 20 times in a game. In that year, he's averaged about 11 carries per game.

Ingram is a back that wears down defenses, he's shown it time and time again in his career. But for whatever reason, Payton refuses to give him the ball 20-25 times a game.

We can't have that here. Get out of here with that sensible nonsense.