Real Estate Agents and Builders to stop using the terms “master bedroom” and “master bathroom” (1 Viewer)

[Loose Cannon]

If I'm driving the process, I'm worried that a black person would view me as yet another white guy controlling the narrative, which I don't want to happen.

This is exactly how I feel about it. And @guidomerkinsrules made some good points in his post. But I don't necessarily fully agree with his take. I mean I always try to improve myself in terms of being educated on racial and societal issues and to be better and more understanding about it. Ten years ago I would have thought getting rid of Dixie was PC run amock. I think I have a good handle on how to improve my own worldview, but I don't know that I'm comfortable telling others how to do that in their own lives. That's the part I'd leave to the people that we want to lift up.

 

[kizzy821]

sure, at the same time - i've heard some version of 'it's not my job to teach you how to undo racism" from many including my wife (not directed at me, directed at the people trying to get her on diversity panels, and said mostly out of frustration than any real animus)
and i've also heard plenty of 'it's not time to ask your black friends to burden themselves with you betterment - they have enough on their plate at the moment
Code Switch tackled this a bit in their episode "Why Now, White People?"


and i REALLY get where you're coming from with the 'not really my place' angle
BUT
pull back far enough and that's essentially approaching approaching african americans and saying, "tell me how to stop hitting you"

in this instance racism is not their disease to cure, it's ours
now obviously they have a vested interest in the cure (like they would have a vested interest in not being punched), but the burden of stopping falls to us
so maybe the conversation is something like:
Wypipo: point me to the racism
AA: *points*
Wypipo: cool, if you want to point out the load bearing parts so we can bring this down quickly, cool - but if you want to just kick it over there while we work at this, then also cool

This might help.


But seriously, I believe the issue is best cured with people changing the way they think. It's a massive undertaking.

Jane Elliott says that if you're white and were born in America, you're racist.

If I assume that's true, how can something ingrained in you from birth be reversed. Like, how do we destroy the ego? How do you humble and reprogram it? How often do people fully reject what they've been taught to believe? And how many times over can it be achieved?

Bluntly speaking, white people have to stop thinking (and acting like) a lack of melanin makes them superior. Or that an abundance of melanin makes one inferior. Such a simple concept to grasp. So why haven't we accomplished it in all these years?

We have to stop raising little humans who grow up and perpetrate racism. Obliterate that part of the ego before it gets a chance to blossom.

That's how most social constructs persevere or die out over time.

But then you're faced with the question of WHY. Why would you change the way you think. What apparent benefit is there to accepting you're no better than anyone else? What personal motivation is there for anyone to ever do that.

I think it's commendable that people ask how they can help, but it's sort of like showing up after a bomb has gone off, and asking the survivors to create a checklist of things you can do to assist them.

I'm jaded, cynical - whatever you want to call it and I have little faith in people's desire and ability to change. So I know there are posters who can provide a much better answer than me. Maybe a list of solutions and actions to take.

But for as many of these conversations I've seen on this board over the years, I have to believe suggestions have already been offered. Yet, we are still asking.

It's like the George Floyd murder itself. How many times have we told you that this is happening. How many times have you seen it. Yet it's taken until now for some people to REALLY see it. How many more generations will pass before the next batch of people see it.

As an aside, the moves by different organizations and industries to take action - without specifically being asked - let's me know that people have some inkling of the right thing to do. At the very least, they know where the starting line is.

 

[Grumpy Old Manatee]

" when I work in remodel construction, if a portajohn (I wonder the origins of that) is not outside, I will ask the homeowner if they mind if I use the powder room. I wonder what the origins of that are. I suppose I could say, "do you mind if I use your 1/2 bath?"

I still chuckle at the term "water closet" for our toilet in the room now formerly known as master bathroom.

 

[Loose Cannon]

As an aside, the moves by different organizations and industries to take action - without specifically being asked - let's me know that people have some inkling of the right thing to do. At the very least, they know where the starting line is.

Great post all around. As a cynical butt crevasse like you, I'm always very skeptical of organizations/industries promoting the efforts they're taking for social justice. The CEOs of these companies put out nice touchy feely ads about social justice or the environment or whatever then turn around and continue to abuse their workforce and the environment, and support policies and politicians that are antithetical to the commercials their marketing teams make look so nice.

 

[Loose Cannon]

As an aside, the moves by different organizations and industries to take action - without specifically being asked - let's me know that people have some inkling of the right thing to do. At the very least, they know where the starting line is.

Great post all around. As a cynic you, I'm always very skeptical of organizations/industries promoting the efforts they're taking for social justice. The CEOs of these companies put out nice touchy feely ads about social justice or the environment or whatever then turn around and continue to abuse their workforce and the environment, and support policies and politicians that are antithetical to the commercials their marketing teams make look so nice.

AKA it's all BS - they're just doing what they need to do to continue to separate themselves from the 99%.

 

[JLaneSaints]

I like to think of myself as a BLM ally.. but i agree that some of this goes a bit too far.

However, some like to cherry pick the things like this that are a little ridiculous, throw their hands in the air, and try to invalidate the entire movement.. That isnt how life works.

Yeah. It's like Stephen Hawking making one miscalculation and then someone trying to say Hawking is an idiot.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

This might help.


But seriously, I believe the issue is best cured with people changing the way they think. It's a massive undertaking.

Jane Elliott says that if you're white and were born in America, you're racist.

If I assume that's true, how can something ingrained in you from birth be reversed. Like, how do we destroy the ego? How do you humble and reprogram it? How often do people fully reject what they've been taught to believe? And how many times over can it be achieved?

Bluntly speaking, white people have to stop thinking (and acting like) a lack of melanin makes them superior. Or that an abundance of melanin makes one inferior. Such a simple concept to grasp. So why haven't we accomplished it in all these years?

We have to stop raising little humans who grow up and perpetrate racism. Obliterate that part of the ego before it gets a chance to blossom.

That's how most social constructs persevere or die out over time.

But then you're faced with the question of WHY. Why would you change the way you think. What apparent benefit is there to accepting you're no better than anyone else? What personal motivation is there for anyone to ever do that.

I think it's commendable that people ask how they can help, but it's sort of like showing up after a bomb has gone off, and asking the survivors to create a checklist of things you can do to assist them.

I'm jaded, cynical - whatever you want to call it and I have little faith in people's desire and ability to change. So I know there are posters who can provide a much better answer than me. Maybe a list of solutions and actions to take.

But for as many of these conversations I've seen on this board over the years, I have to believe suggestions have already been offered. Yet, we are still asking.

It's like the George Floyd murder itself. How many times have we told you that this is happening. How many times have you seen it. Yet it's taken until now for some people to REALLY see it. How many more generations will pass before the next batch of people see it.

As an aside, the moves by different organizations and industries to take action - without specifically being asked - let's me know that people have some inkling of the right thing to do. At the very least, they know where the starting line is.

i'm with it
but kinda want to flip it too
let's ask Jesus:
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

essentially do the work and let the mind/belief/faith follow
one of the best white people action i saw was the white shield
when police approached, protest leaders would yell "white shield' and the white people would get between the police and protestors of color
i think that is a great metaphor - find out where the people of color are trying to go and asking how we can be the shield for that effort

and i think it helps to recognize that even the 'most faithful' among us have the impulse to hang out in the rear guard and whitesplain what went wrong and throw up the "i mean...is that really racist"

 

[First Time Poster]

I think it's a great question by Dave but most of this board is white dudes. In terms of how we can help, I'd like to hear from our black posters. I don't think it's really my place as a white man to go tell people how they can best help fight systemic racism. I suspect that feeling is shared by many.

Ooh, ooh, pick me, pick me!

 

[kizzy821]

i'm with it
but kinda want to flip it too
let's ask Jesus:
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

essentially do the work and let the mind/belief/faith follow
one of the best white people action i saw was the white shield
when police approached, protest leaders would yell "white shield' and the white people would get between the police and protestors of color
i think that is a great metaphor - find out where the people of color are trying to go and asking how we can be the shield for that effort

and i think it helps to recognize that even the 'most faithful' among us have the impulse to hang out in the rear guard and whitesplain what went wrong and throw up the "i mean...is that really racist"

I absolutely agree that you can take action without necessarily changing your thinking. That's where I am on the Drew Brees issue in not needing him to change how he feels in his mind. It's not necessary if you just commit to the acts. I think that's what you're saying.

That works for the people who have already arrived so-to-speak. They have less time to focus on the reversal of thoughts. Which is where most of us are. But in order to not be having these same conversations in 30 years, there has to be a major shift in fundamentals. Somehow the broken generations have to fix/reprogram the ones that come after us.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Ooh, ooh, pick me, pick me!

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

i think there's a zen lesson in here

 

[Loose Cannon]

i think there's a zen lesson in here

Zen and The Art of Promoting Social Justice

Has a nice ring to it

 

[First Time Poster]

Done!

 

[DaveXA]

Done!

Well worth the wait.

 

[KiwiSaint]

So you’re imagining that BLM, and the Houston realtors association and Quaker Oats are all in cahoots somehow to cancel statues and words so that they can finally...
so they can....
what do you imagine is the nefarious goal here?

I don't think that I mentioned anything about any nefarious goal in my post. I'm making the observation that vilifying words, statues, advertising icons under the guise of "removing offense" is going to do nothing to eliminate the systemic roadblocks and racism that some minority populations face. As stated in my post, for me personally, the hypocritical, political correctness is getting ridiculous and doing nothing to bring the people together or create an even playing field for all races. RIght or wrong, for me...it lessens my sympathy for the protests and the causes they support. For the more right-leaning, borderline racist segment of the population, it will just increase their disdain for minorities and their plight.