Real Estate Agents and Builders to stop using the terms “master bedroom” and “master bathroom” (2 Viewers)

RIght or wrong, for me...it lessens my sympathy for the protests and the causes they support.

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For the more right-leaning, borderline racist segment of the population, it will just increase their disdain for minorities and their plight.

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Respectfully, Kiwi, reflect on what you said here a bit.
 
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I don't think that I mentioned anything about any nefarious goal in my post. I'm making the observation that vilifying words, statues, advertising icons under the guise of "removing offense" is going to do nothing to eliminate the systemic roadblocks and racism that some minority populations face. As stated in my post, for me personally, the hypocritical, political correctness is getting ridiculous and doing nothing to bring the people together or create an even playing field for all races. RIght or wrong, for me...it lessens my sympathy for the protests and the causes they support. For the more right-leaning, borderline racist segment of the population, it will just increase their disdain for minorities and their plight.
It serves more as a distraction to me from the bigger issues, especially when the reason for the change doesn't really seem to be rooted in a desire to improve the lives of black people and all it will really bring is more discontent where there likely never was any to begin with. As I said, had they made the change internally rather than announce it, that would be a different story and I'm sure a lot of other realtors would rapidly pick up on that and it would become a trend. But instead, they brought attention to an issue that never existed in the first place and most likely for selfish reasons. That's what makes it such a turn-off.

It's exactly what @guidomerkinsrules just posted from the Bible: “You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Just do it and God will see your works. When you proclaim it, you cheapen it and make it about you. That's nothing but self promotion.
 
It serves more as a distraction to me from the bigger issues, especially when the reason for the change doesn't really seem to be rooted in a desire to improve the lives of black people and all it will really bring is more discontent where there likely never was any to begin with. As I said, had they made the change internally rather than announce it, that would be a different story and I'm sure a lot of other realtors would rapidly pick up on that and it would become a trend. But instead, they brought attention to an issue that never existed in the first place and most likely for selfish reasons. That's what makes it such a turn-off.

It's exactly what @guidomerkinsrules just posted from the Bible: “You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

Just do it and God will see your works. When you proclaim it, you cheapen it and make it about you. That's nothing but self promotion.

So, my position has been that if you guys let things like this distract and frustrate you, then the momentum for this movement will subside very quickly. Like, if this is annoying to you, buckle up, because I promise you there will be many more iddy biddy, little, minor, inconsequential changes like this happening and if your patience is that thin, you will be provided many opportunities to abandon this cause. I need for White America to realize that with a groundswell this large, a pendulum swing back this hard, with this large of a course correction, you are going to HAVE to leave space for changes that overshoot the mark, miss the mark and, yes, changes that are mistakes. Those things are going to happen. Period. And if those things are dulling your resolve, then you need to reflect on what this moment is truly about. We are talking about making the type of institutional, political and societal changes that, ultimately, can save lives in minority communities. Let's keep that all the way 100. But, this isn't a drive from Baton Rouge to New Orleans. This big of a change, this is a cross country effort from LA to New York. There will be plenty of off-ramps between here and the destination. Make no mistake, White America's wherewithal will be tested. Some of this stuff yall just gonna have to chuck the deuces on and keep it moving.
 
So, my position has been that if you guys let things like this distract and frustrate you, then the momentum for this movement will subside very quickly. Like, if this is annoying to you, buckle up, because I promise you there will be many more iddy biddy, little, minor, inconsequential changes like this happening and if your patience is that thin, you will be provided many opportunities to abandon this cause. I need for White America to realize that with a groundswell this large, a pendulum swing back this hard, with this large of a course correction, you are going to HAVE to leave space for changes that overshoot the mark, miss the mark and, yes, changes that are mistakes. Those things are going to happen. Period. And if those things are dulling your resolve, then you need to reflect on what this moment is truly about. We are talking about making the type of institutional, political and societal changes that, ultimately, can save lives in minority communities. Let's keep that all the way 100. But, this isn't a drive from Baton Rouge to New Orleans. This big of a change, this is a cross country effort from LA to New York. There will be plenty of off-ramps between here and the destination. Make no mistake, White America's wherewithal will be tested. Some of this stuff yall just gonna have to chuck the deuces on and keep it moving.

Yep, definitely one of those "don't let the perfect become the enemy of good" moments. Well said brother. :9:
 
Maybe these police free zones are an example of "going too far."

I am also not certain that "Master Bedroom" ever referred to a master-slave relationship, but I can see that it could be interpreted that way. To me, however, a MBR means a bedroom with a bathroom accessible only from the bedroom, nothing more, nothing less. To be sure, "a bedroom with a bathroom accessible only from that bedroom" is a bit unwieldy, so it desperately needs a more succinct term. Presumably, the term "Master Bedroom" was settled on some years ago. Maybe it's time to revisit that terminology, but I have no good suggestions . Bedroom/bathroom combo? IDK.

I find this to be a rather fatuous dispute, but maybe I am looking at it from too white a perspective.
 
Maybe these police free zones are an example of "going too far."

I am also not certain that "Master Bedroom" ever referred to a master-slave relationship, but I can see that it could be interpreted that way. To me, however, a MBR means a bedroom with a bathroom accessible only from the bedroom, nothing more, nothing less. To be sure, "a bedroom with a bathroom accessible only from that bedroom" is a bit unwieldy, so it desperately needs a more succinct term. Presumably, the term "Master Bedroom" was settled on some years ago. Maybe it's time to revisit that terminology, but I have no good suggestions . Bedroom/bathroom combo? IDK.

I find this to be a rather fatuous dispute, but maybe I am looking at it from too white a perspective.

I've never heard a black man/woman complain to me about it. I have a good black friend who also is a realtor and he helped me buy/sell a house in DC over 10 years ago. He still calls it master bedroom and he and I never brought it up as something worth discussing.

That said, as FTP outlined well, let's examine what it is, and if it's something, adjust, if it's nothing, let's move on to the next thing.

Ultimately, nothing may come of this. But there are probably other small stuff deserving more scrutiny. Such as the cakewalk term gmr talked about in another thread. I'd never heard the story about cakewalks, so, now that I'm aware of it, I adjust accordingly. It's gonna take a while for me to get on the same page with black culture because I'm a novice in that area.
 
I've never heard a black man/woman complain to me about it. I have a good black friend who also is a realtor and he helped me buy/sell a house in DC over 10 years ago. He still calls it master bedroom and he and I never brought it up as something worth discussing.

That said, as FTP outlined well, let's examine what it is, and if it's something, adjust, if it's nothing, let's move on to the next thing.

Ultimately, nothing may come of this. But there are probably other small stuff deserving more scrutiny. Such as the cakewalk term gmr talked about in another thread. I'd never heard the story about cakewalks, so, now that I'm aware of it, I adjust accordingly. It's gonna take a while for me to get on the same page with black culture because I'm a novice in that area.

Yeah, by and large, this wasn't "on the list", right? No one I know was peeved over master bedroom. But lets realize there will be persons/entities that will take advantage of this moment to make a superficial change to say "see, i did something", others who will just use the social capital to push an agenda and, even then, some things, most things, will be done without nefarious intent. From earlier posts, it seems this change was on the table previously and was more gender related than race. But, now was a good time, public sentiment being what it was, to make a move. You are gonna see a lot of that and, for the most part, it's okay. Just move past it.

@kizzy821 had the best take thus far. As long as this isn't being held up as real change in lieu of things like more affordable housing, eliminating bias/discrimination in housing loans and provided resources to impoverished neighborhoods, then, ultimately this is a footnote and something we just chuckle at and move on past.
 
Maybe these police free zones are an example of "going too far."

I am also not certain that "Master Bedroom" ever referred to a master-slave relationship, but I can see that it could be interpreted that way. To me, however, a MBR means a bedroom with a bathroom accessible only from the bedroom, nothing more, nothing less. To be sure, "a bedroom with a bathroom accessible only from that bedroom" is a bit unwieldy, so it desperately needs a more succinct term. Presumably, the term "Master Bedroom" was settled on some years ago. Maybe it's time to revisit that terminology, but I have no good suggestions . Bedroom/bathroom combo? IDK.

I find this to be a rather fatuous dispute, but maybe I am looking at it from too white a perspective.
So pull back a bit
Language is something humans have created to facilitate communication-
It should be fluid and adaptive
Too often we see language as some mythic creation handed down to us from ...???
I see no real downside on seeing language as dynamic and responsive to our needs

So we examine whether or not ‘master’ is offensive
The value of this is not where we land (yes it is or no it isn’t)
The cake comes from being present to process and dynamic of language and checking who gets to decide proper usage
 
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Respectfully, Kiwi, reflect on what you said here a bit.
Your post infers the exact opposite of "respectfully". You are suggesting my post and thoughts are the same as right-leaning, racists.

Disdain - the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect. This is a term that I would apply to anyone of any race, if they feel that due to the colour of someone's skin, they are unworthy of consideration or respect.

I said that hypocritical reactions to remove supposed offense lessened my sympathy towards some of the current protests. This is a far cry from showing disdain.

It is quite enlightening how many of you, label anyone with a view not aligned with yours, as closet bigots or racists.
 
Your post infers the exact opposite of "respectfully". You are suggesting my post and thoughts are the same as right-leaning, racists.

Disdain - the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect. This is a term that I would apply to anyone of any race, if they feel that due to the colour of someone's skin, they are unworthy of consideration or respect.

I said that hypocritical reactions to remove supposed offense lessened my sympathy towards some of the current protests. This is a far cry from showing disdain.

It is quite enlightening how many of you, label anyone with a view not aligned with yours, as closet bigots or racists.

While I get what you're saying, i think we need to see this through in spite of some of the inevitable hypocrisy. The world is full of them, and that shouldn't invalidate the movement. Or even make it less potent. I think it's important we all take an inventory of ourselves and maybe ask where we can improve and be willing to challenge my own thinking.

Just a thought anyway.
 
Your post infers the exact opposite of "respectfully". You are suggesting my post and thoughts are the same as right-leaning, racists.

Disdain - the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect. This is a term that I would apply to anyone of any race, if they feel that due to the colour of someone's skin, they are unworthy of consideration or respect.

I said that hypocritical reactions to remove supposed offense lessened my sympathy towards some of the current protests. This is a far cry from showing disdain.

It is quite enlightening how many of you, label anyone with a view not aligned with yours, as closet bigots or racists.

I'm not suggesting anything. I simply quoted two different sentences that you posted.

If you're offended by the implication that you are being exactly who you are "warning" us about, then, as I said, perhaps it's time for reflection. You almost literally said "doing this is going to increase the disdain of right-leaning racists.. also it is increasing my disdain"

Don't feign offense. You said it. Not me. I didn't do anything to you except point out that 2+2 = 4.

The "I'm very offended and am going to shift gears and play victim" move is the go-to move for racists and bigots. I'm not saying you're a racist or a bigot, but you're playing all of their cards deftly. Reflection.
 
others who will just use the social capital to push an agenda
typically i don't like to parse an FTP post but i would like to bore down on this as a way of maybe explaining what's going on
think of social capital as actual money. if someone grew up in a hand to mouth situation, they probably do not have much training on saving money - no saving for a rainy day. no avoiding this $50 dollar purchase that i kinda want in lieu of this $200 thing that i need
if someone comes from a place of scarcity and they get a windfall, the IMPULSE will be to spend that money almost immediately (i say impulse bc there are some who can override that impulse and do save)

so now we have people who just came into some social capital people who did not garner much attention before or even operated at a negative social capital position -but now they have a windfall
the IMPULSE is to spend it
conservative financial/social planning would advise you to hold on to your assets and maybe combine them with others and hold out for something nice like police reform or even reparations
but
the difference here is that the social market is VERY volatile - you have social capital today but you don't even know if that currency will have value tomorrow
if you have a bunch of social capital, you might be able to ride out some bizarro story that diverts everyone's attention for 3-4 days
but
if you just got a little bump, then it makes the most sense to go ahead and spend it on 'master' or aunt jemima or GWTW or whatever
you will at least have some value transaction
 
Thank God hard drives went away from master and slave jumpers. Ahead of the curve.
 
Thank God hard drives went away from master and slave jumpers. Ahead of the curve.

Well, I think that one was probably like flying too close to the sun. I know there are practical applications for both words but using both in connection often just..., but it's hard to avoid that in tech speak unless you actually change the terminology. Primary/secondary makes more sense anyway.
 
I'm not suggesting anything. I simply quoted two different sentences that you posted.

If you're offended by the implication that you are being exactly who you are "warning" us about, then, as I said, perhaps it's time for reflection. You almost literally said "doing this is going to increase the disdain of right-leaning racists.. also it is increasing my disdain"

Don't feign offense. You said it. Not me. I didn't do anything to you except point out that 2+2 = 4.

The "I'm very offended and am going to shift gears and play victim" move is the go-to move for racists and bigots. I'm not saying you're a racist or a bigot, but you're playing all of their cards deftly. Reflection.
You seem like a relatively bright person, so please find in my post anywhere that I said that it is, as you quoted above, "increasing my disdain". I clearly said that it was lessening my sympathy for the movement, not increasing my disdain.
And I am not feigning offense...I am offended. There is a clique of posters on this site that while espousing inclusion and fairness for all races, do not want to hear or discuss alternate viewpoints. As soon as someone does not fall in line with their world-view, they are labelled as bigots or worse. The intolerance is quite telling.

I can guarantee you that I have personally done more for minority workforces around the world than you can even begin to imagine...and for you to smugly tell me to reflect on my words and implying that I am a bigot or racist because of those words is farcical.
 

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