Another police shooting - this time in Wisconsin... (3 Viewers)

[CoolBrees]

And I will add, that traveling as a military person doesn’t necessarily mean “seeing the world.”

I am not saying this applies to anyone in this thread as I know nothing of anyone’s travels outside mine as a military kid. I saw the bases, the BX and Commissary. When we traveled we went to other military installments and stayed in the VOQs. Hardly a swath of local flavor.

Moreover, on an unrelated note, there is an interesting point to be made about the disproportionate representation of PoC in our military. They make up a MUCH larger portion of military than they do the population at large. Why is that? I would submit that it is because military is seen as the only real avenue towards career advancement for PoC. Think about that. PoC need to put their lives in harms way (for our safety no less) to feel like they will be given a chance at college, etc. That the only system that is made to be equal is one where you are shot at

 

[Dago]

This "you are ultimately responsible for your actions" extends to human beings with state power.

So how about we focus on making sure the same rules apply and not strawman the conversation.

saying that we are all responsible for our actions isn't a strawman....it is a statement of equality. That should apply whether you are a politician, cop, or citizen

 

[DaveXA]

It's a strawman because nobody ever debated that. This conversation is far beyond that.

Nobody ever debated obvious criminals should not be arrested and held responsible for their actions. It's just a "look over there" type comment.

I don't know, I'm seeing people saying the rioters and looters shouldn't be prosecuted and many of them are being released without charges. I'm not entirely sure, but i would think that's part of it. They're obviously committing criminal acts, and I'd argue they're actually hurting the cause of the protests rather than helping.

 

[Dago]

It's a strawman because nobody ever debated that. This conversation is far beyond that.

Nobody ever debated obvious criminals should not be arrested and held responsible for their actions. It's just a "look over there" type comment.

you are attempting to spin it with your caveat of 'obvious criminals'

which really makes it ironic and amusing that you are in here talking about strawman arguments

 

[CoolBrees]

Well....

MLK
Nelson Mandela
Muhammad Ali
Jesus Christ
Gandhi

were all obvious criminals in their time. Yesterdays Criminals are today’s martyrs and heros

 

[insidejob]

All of this talk about MLK makes me really want to post that episode of The Boondocks where MLK didn't die but was in a coma for 30 years and comes out of it in 2001 or something.

Hell, here it is: Some NSFW language

Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[Charlie Brizzown]

I don't know, I'm seeing people saying the rioters and looters shouldn't be prosecuted and many of them are being released without charges. I'm not entirely sure, but i would think that's part of it. They're obviously committing criminal acts, and I'd argue they're actually hurting the cause of the protests rather than helping.

I wouldn't take points away from the cause because some people choose to take advantage of the situation for their own reasons or because some may express their support for the cause in ways that aren't 100% legal. One could even argue that at some point, after no meaningful results from peaceful protesting, that the only way to get results is to start tearing sheet down.

It's easy to stand back and say protest peacefully when you're not the one being oppressed.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Well....

MLK
Nelson Mandela
Muhammad Ali
Jesus Christ
Gandhi

were all obvious criminals in their time. Yesterdays Criminals are today’s martyrs and heros

John Malcolm would like to hear more about this after he finishes washing off the tar and feathers from those peaceful protestors in Boston.

 

[DaveXA]

I wouldn't take points away from the cause because some people choose to take advantage of the situation for their own reasons or because some may express their support for the cause in ways that aren't 100% legal. One could even argue that at some point, after no meaningful results from peaceful protesting, that the only way to get results is to start tearing sheet down.

It's easy to stand back and say protest peacefully when you're not the one being oppressed.

I'm not the one taking away from the cause though. I'm saying that's what people will see and think. Which, ultimately, affects perception. At some point, the tearing sheet down becomes counterproductive. Imo, we're well past that point. It's time to actually do something as a result of all of this. Some things are starting to happen and I'd say let's start building on that. But it's 2020, who knows what's coming next?

 

[Get in the Carr]

My point was that you made it sound like your neighborhood was normal and representative of neighborhoods across the country when that's hardly the case. That's exactly why I said your comments and experiences are anecdotal. I'm not invalidating your experiences, just saying it's only a small slice of the normal human experiences we all go through.

I get it. That wasn’t my intention to say these anecdotal experiences are the be all and end of story. Just examples but i have lived in several neighborhoods in different cities and states, gone to a few different universities, and had several different jobs.

I actually feel a lot like you posted earlier about personal experiences when out. I don’t have negative experiences or feel the hate that i see online. That’s what i’m trying to wrap my head around. Is this hate and anger i see online real or is something more sinister at play?

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I get it. That wasn’t my intention to say these anecdotal experiences are the be all and end of story. Just examples but i have lived in several neighborhoods in different cities and states, gone to a few different universities, and had several different jobs.

I actually feel a lot like you posted earlier about personal experiences when out. I don’t have negative experiences or feel the hate that i see online. That’s what i’m trying to wrap my head around. Is this hate and anger i see online real or is something more sinister at play?

It's easy to hate online. You can't see the person or face any consequences. You can speak in broad generalities without assigning a face or voice to the person.

It's different in person because that's another human being, flesh and blood. It's hard to express hate in those situations because you're not hating an abstract concept, but a person.

 

[RazorOye]

I don’t have negative experiences or feel the hate that i see online. That’s what i’m trying to wrap my head around. Is this hate and anger i see online real or is something more sinister at play?

you haven't been subjected to the discrimination that is causing the stir, so what are you or how are you trying to understand?

Also, I see much more patience than I see hate. More peacefulness than I see violence.

It seems that people who want to see the violence, see the violence.

Just as you went on about how you interpret "stats" you seem to be doing the same thing with "hate"

I would suggest looking into the history of how we arrived where we are and approach with understanding.

 

[Get in the Carr]

And I will add, that traveling as a military person doesn’t necessarily mean “seeing the world.”

I am not saying this applies to anyone in this thread as I know nothing of anyone’s travels outside mine as a military kid. I saw the bases, the BX and Commissary. When we traveled we went to other military installments and stayed in the VOQs. Hardly a swath of local flavor.

Moreover, on an unrelated note, there is an interesting point to be made about the disproportionate representation of PoC in our military. They make up a MUCH larger portion of military than they do the population at large. Why is that? I would submit that it is because military is seen as the only real avenue towards career advancement for PoC. Think about that. PoC need to put their lives in harms way (for our safety no less) to feel like they will be given a chance at college, etc. That the only system that is made to be equal is one where you are shot at

Nice spin. That’s irrelevant to my point but yes there are several Vets i’m sure who had admin jobs and never traveled. It happens.

To your point about POC in military. I don’t know how it is now but around the 9/11 era the makeup of the military changed. I’d like to see your source for that.

The backgrounds of those enlisted changed after 9/11. You had people of all color joining with college degrees who could have worked in many other fields. Anyways, if you are trying to say that your point is an example of systemic racism then all i can tell you is that seems like a stretch.

 

[CoolBrees]

I said no such thing.

nor was my father an admin. I stated it was my opinion as a family member in the military. But I seem to have hit a nerve.

My father is a 24 year in Ret Lt. Col, Vietnam Veteran and Air Force Academy Grad. KC-135 pilot. I traveled extensively during his time but Saw very little. I saw the world on my own.

To your second point, the statistics for military make up are easily attained an readily available. But since it seems out of your element to use google, Last I checked PoC make up roughly 20% of the enlisted military and only 13% of the population at large. About 1.5 times more. We can get into all kinds of disparities in enlisted vs officers but I am not going to derail this thread.

 

[Get in the Carr]

It's easy to hate online. You can't see the person or face any consequences. You can speak in broad generalities without assigning a face or voice to the person.

It's different in person because that's another human being, flesh and blood. It's hard to express hate in those situations because you're not hating an abstract concept, but a person.

I totally understand that. I have experienced being hated. I feel though when someone has hate, that it eventually seeps out in some shape or form. I have seen it from many walks of life. I just don’t see it, at all, in the majority of my day to day interactions. I go on FB and see comments in news articles from the opposing views that are straight up hateful and evil. Is it possible that those are real thoughts that someone doesn’t have the courage to say to anyone out loud? Yes, i think it is. Like i said though, the comments i have seen are the type of hate that i have a hard time believing anyone can hide. Especially, with the media promoting it. I just don’t see it in my day to day except for online. Just my opinion and how i feel. Not saying it isn’t there.