The Derek Chauvin trial {Mod Edit: Guilty on all charges} (1 Viewer)

This is why we can't have nice things.

Let me spell this out for you I guess.

Police accountability can be implemented without addressing racism.
Racism in police should be addressed also.
These 2 things can happen exclusively of one another.
Police accountability discussions have stalled because all the focus is on race.
 
Let me spell this out for you I guess.
This should be fun.
Police accountability can be implemented without addressing racism.
Good idea. When I fix problems, I make sure to avoid large, extremely significant parts of the problem, too.
Racism in police should be addressed also.
Alright.
These 2 things can happen exclusively of one another.
Why would that be helpful?
Police accountability discussions have stalled because all the focus is on race.
Part of the police accountability discussion is racism in policing.
 
Let me spell this out for you I guess.

Police accountability can be implemented without addressing racism.
Racism in police should be addressed also.
These 2 things can happen exclusively of one another.
Police accountability discussions have stalled because all the focus is on race.

I think I understand what you're getting at. You seem to be saying that Police Unions and such will never be truly reformed because they'll always continue the status quo as long as the race card is played.

You are arguing that the race card is preventing reform from happening because those resisting reforms will use the race card as an excuse not to. So the cart before the horse is racism before reforms.

I'd argue that both can be addressed at the same time. Reforms have to happen, and addressing and fixing the systemic racism has to go hand in hand with the reforms. I understand you think they can be done separately, but I don't think that's actually practical. It's not going to be either/or. Both needs to happen or neither truly gets done.
 
Unchecked power is a disease.

If unchecked power were truly the disease, we would all be out here experiencing the wrath of it proportionally. Period. Point blank.

If unchecked power was the issue with sexual assault, we would all be getting assaulted proportionally.

We don't. Police accountability. Who holds them accountable? What institution, that doesn't have its own white supremacy problem, holds police accountable? I never seem to get an answer to that.
 
Yep



Also yep, it's like some haven't been paying attention recently and fail to realize that trying to physically intervene with cops with bad intentions may not turn out to be a disaster for all involved....had that happened the murderous cop and those complicit would have likely been martyred....

This is where I am confused if you're saying you agree....

you're saying that people fail to realize that intervening with cops may NOT turn out to be a disaster for all involved.

99% of the time, messing with cops in the line of duty is going to end up bad for EVERYONE involved trying to obstruct them from carrying out their responsibilities (even if what they are doing is later to be found as an abuse of power).
 
This is where I am confused if you're saying you agree....

you're saying that people fail to realize that intervening with cops may NOT turn out to be a disaster for all involved.

99% of the time, messing with cops in the line of duty is going to end up bad for EVERYONE involved trying to obstruct them from carrying out their responsibilities (even if what they are doing is later to be found as an abuse of power).

I suspect the not part was inadvertently inserted there.
 
If unchecked power were truly the disease, we would all be out here experiencing the wrath of it proportionally. Period. Point blank.

If unchecked power was the issue with sexual assault, we would all be getting assaulted proportionally.

We don't. Police accountability. Who holds them accountable? What institution, that doesn't have its own white supremacy problem, holds police accountable? I never seem to get an answer to that.

I would think it's the local governments, but that's a whole other ball of wax.
 
I think I understand what you're getting at. You seem to be saying that Police Unions and such will never be truly reformed because they'll always continue the status quo as long as the race card is played.

You are arguing that the race card is preventing reform from happening because those resisting reforms will use the race card as an excuse not to. So the cart before the horse is racism before reforms.

I'd argue that both can be addressed at the same time. Reforms have to happen, and addressing and fixing the systemic racism has to go hand in hand with the reforms. I understand you think they can be done separately, but I don't think that's actually practical. It's not going to be either/or. Both needs to happen or neither truly gets done.

I am not saying the race card will be used as an excuse not to reform.
I am saying we could have had a national narrative and discussion that dominated the news cycle that we need police accountability.
Instead, race took such a forefront that police accountability is almost an after-thought.

We could be talking more about ending qualified immunity, making officers have their own liability insurance, independent investigation of abuses outside of departments, and other measures, but those issues are so back burnered that they don't get traction because all people want to talk about is race.

Say we did end qualified immunity and officers did have to have liability insurance. There would be real consequences for abuse and bad officers would be weeded out. Instead, here is the police union "backing the blue". I am sure they are happy its not a national conversation about accountability and actions that can be taken to advance it.
 
James Baldwin said that white Americans are "in effect still trapped in a history which they do not understand and until they understand it, they cannot be released from it."

As a man, it would be audacious to tell women there is no correlation between rape and misogyny. Females are undeniably and overwhelmingly disproportionately victims of rape and the misogynistic culture they live in is a direct cause of why. I can't begin to fix rape without addressing misogyny.

Empathy is needed. Police reform can't happen without addressing racism. Saying they are separate issues is willingly remaining trapped in our country's history that white America continously seems to want to remain trapped in. This situation, this trial, isn't isolated. Let's not treat it as such.
I stuck to talking about the trial. Trials are about people not ideas. The issue of "racism" or "misogyny" are NEVER going to be decided in a trial. They just can't be. I also don't think they can be fixed but, again, this is about the trial.
 
I am not saying the race card will be used as an excuse not to reform.
I am saying we could have had a national narrative and discussion that dominated the news cycle that we need police accountability.
Instead, race took such a forefront that police accountability is almost an after-thought.

We could be talking more about ending qualified immunity, making officers have their own liability insurance, independent investigation of abuses outside of departments, and other measures, but those issues are so back burnered that they don't get traction because all people want to talk about is race.

Say we did end qualified immunity and officers did have to have liability insurance. There would be real consequences for abuse and bad officers would be weeded out. Instead, here is the police union "backing the blue". I am sure they are happy its not a national conversation about accountability and actions that can be taken to advance it.

And those are legitimate issues that need to be addressed. It's been discussed before numerous times, but it seems like every time, it gets lost in the fog of other issues.

But even doing all of those things on it's own is only a half measure. But I think you agree with that. Since you're not saying race doesn't need to be an issue, but rather a matter of priority. I get it. I still think both can be addressed without drowning out each other. But that's me.
 
I stuck to talking about the trial. Trials are about people not ideas. The issue of "racism" or "misogyny" are NEVER going to be decided in a trial. They just can't be. I also don't think they can be fixed but, again, this is about the trial.
The umpteen Mississippi Burning type trials and Stanford rape trials are unsure of your assessment
 
But their would still be that damning video of Chauvin maliciously putting that choke hold on Floyd face-first on the pavement and him screaming and shouting that he can't breathe that defense attorneys could have used as a way to say those cops were using excessive, disproportionate amount of force on a subdued suspect that a growing group of bystanders got fed up with and attacked them, trying to get them to stop or pull them off.

The MSM would also have to examine and discuss the same narrative of whether the patrol cops should have been using that amount of force to arrest someone even in an alternative scenario where outside intervention maybe saves Floyd's life.
No, the video would be used as evidence against the mob attacking the police and trying to stop a valid arrest. Again, in hindsight we see that Chauvin's actions were too much because Floyd died. If they rushed the cops within say 5-7 minutes and Floyd lives through it, there is no way that video looks as damning against the police as we assume it would be because we know he died. It will simply look (and be touted by the largest of the MSM channels/sources) as evidence that people hate the police and that BLM is anti-police [because you know that a group of mostly black people in an altercation with police would be labeled BLM]) like a bunch of people interfered with a simple arrest, POlice use that much force and more in arrests that don't end up in death and very few bat an eye except some "radical" people complaining about police brutality and "injecting race" where it shouldn't be.
 
Its not though. The thread is about a trial of a cop who murdered someone. From what I am hearing race was not mentioned in the trial. We also KNOW that police have and will kill people of any color. The issue is police accountability.

If Floyd had been low income, redneck trailer park guy with Floyd's same record and history with Chauvin, it likely would have gone the same way.
No, it would have been very, very different.
 

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