Police Shootings / Possible Abuse Threads [merged] (2 Viewers)

[rajncajn]

If I believe their reasoning for walking away is a dishonorable one, yes.

You initially implied that they were walking off the job because the scrutiny they were facing, now that the reasoning has change, my opinion of those that walk away because they "find it too difficult or dangerous...", I wish them good luck in their future endeavors. That being said, I would like to know why did they think being Police was not going to be difficult or dangerous?


Did I say all of that...NO.

I never said, nor implied that.
I said they were quitting out of fear of the job and, in fact, you quoted that and rebutted directly with "they do not deserve to wear the badge if they fear the job."

 

[Saintman2884]

If I believe their reasoning for walking away is a dishonorable one, yes.

You initially implied that they were walking off the job because the scrutiny they were facing, now that the reasoning has change, my opinion of those that walk away because they "find it too difficult or dangerous...", I wish them good luck in their future endeavors. That being said, I would like to know why did they think being Police was not going to be difficult or dangerous?


Did I say all of that...NO.

Based on how you phrased your comments, yes,.it did sound that way or at least you were inferring it as a blanket,.absolutist condemnation. If I'm in a gosh darned job where I could get shot, injured, it leads to increased stress, strain of my emotional relationships with my wife, kids, extended family and those stressers get in the way of me doing the same high-quality duties I did before, and I DONT WANT TO forkING DIE OF AN HEART ATTACK by the time I'm 55, maybe leaving would be best possible option for me. I knew how difficult the job was/could be when I signed up 20 years when I was younger and wasnt married yet. Even the most determined, hard-working, conscientious cops, firefighters, EMT technicians, ER doctors get worn down by the emotional, psychological, and physical stress. It happens, irregardless of how much we're aware of the dangers, and potential violence their exposed to on a daily basis plus the myriad ominous situations their put in to solve?

 

[kizzy821]

What gives you the moral right or this condescending attitude that you can dictate what jobs people shouldn't or should have based on animosity, increased public negative attitudes about how seemingly every cop is a potential murderer in blue. Sometimes,.if you're a forking stock broker and you've been good at it for 10 years but the constant mental, physical stress and strain involved in the job becomes too much and you deciding to change occupations, doesn't mean he/she some gutless chickenshirt who can't handle the pressure and never could, or that they've earned moral condemnation from judgmental types. If you've done a very good job and worked hard for a long time trying to achieve some success and visibility for a living, but due to the constant travel, emotional and physical stress associated with the position, and to spend more time with your family and maybe save your marriage, you decide to leave and in the interim process, some young up-and-coming intelligent arse who doesn't understand nor appreciates the inherent difficulties, hardships conjoined with your former job, says you're a quitter, and fundamentally weak and intimidated by the demands of your job when that is completely opposite from the complex reality that made you wanted to leave that job in the first place. How unfair would that sort of criticism sound to you? You wouldn't feel insulted or disrespected by some butt crevasse disparaging all the years of hard work, dedication, and sacrifices you expended into your job that he says YOU'RE running away from? Doesn't matter if its illogical, without merit or intellectual validation, or fundamentally immoral/unethical, a halfway convincing, mesmerizing demagogue will always win over a few believers appealing to their emotional-based grievances than strict, logical political sound arguments based around fiscal/social issues.

How in God's name do you know, peering into their souls of these cops, like some credible sociologist or even better yet, a priest, saying most of these cops who are leaving because of fear of accountability? That most are all morally and ethically guilty or are incapable, inept or stupid to do their jobs. That's very elitist assumption to make, IMHO.

FYI - You have 118 words in 1 sentence.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I never said, nor implied that.
I said they were quitting out of fear of the job and, in fact, you quoted that and rebutted directly with "they do not deserve to wear the badge if they fear the job."

The implication:

Do you think that's because they fear black men or because they fear the job itself? Which sounds more plausible to you?

From the following interaction

They're not scared of black men, they're scared of doing their job.

what about the job itself are they fearing?

 

[rajncajn]

The implication:

From the following interaction

Still not seeing it.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Based on how you phrased your comments, yes,.it did sound that way or at least you were inferring it as a blanket,.absolutist condemnation. If I'm in a gosh darned job where I could get shot, injured, it leads to increased stress, strain of my emotional relationships with my wife, kids, extended family and those stressers get in the way of me doing the same high-quality duties I did before, and I DONT WANT TO forkING DIE OF AN HEART ATTACK by the time I'm 55, maybe leaving would be best possible option for me. I knew how difficult the job was/could be when I signed up 20 years when I was younger and wasnt married yet. Even the most determined, hard-working, conscientious cops, firefighters, EMT technicians, ER doctors get worn down by the emotional, psychological, and physical stress. It happens, irregardless of how much we're aware of the dangers, and potential violence their exposed to on a daily basis plus the myriad ominous situations their put in to solve?

That's not the conversation that was being had here though. If you're a cop and you feel your time is up, by all means, retire/resign. But if you quitting because of increased scrutiny, you have to ask yourself why you joined in the first place. If you are doing the job the right way and holding your co-workers to that same high standard, then the increased scrutiny shouldn't be such a deterrent that would make you quit.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Still not seeing it.

Ok, then answer this:

what about the job itself are they fearing?

 

[Eeyore]

Lawsuit filed today

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

If you're good at teaching calculus, trigonometry, or even more elevated math, usually more often then not, the types of students you tend of have in your classes, be it at the HS or College level, tend to be above-average IQ, high-performing, hard-working students who are committed, focused, and not C- level students who barely apply themselves, don't want to be there and are anxiously waiting down the days until they can legally drop out. Not every perspective public servant working in a local, state, federal agencies are going to be best "PR" qualities corporate HR departments demand or expect. Its unrealistic to even use that as some hiring bar because it unfairly disqualifies a lot of potentially effective, highly talented workers from doing effective, high-level, great jobs.

You’re kinda making a point for me I hadn’t realized I was making
only teaching the ‘good’ kids who already know how to do what you want them to do is not really teaching
protecting the already super protected should not be the point of policing

 

[DaveXA]

Lawsuit filed today

That just makes me sick. Exactly one of those situations where police don't need to be involved. Terrible.

 

[rajncajn]

Ok, then answer this:

I didn't answer him because Dave already did and I agreed with Dave. Fear of getting killed, fear of making a mistake that costs them everything. Not wanting to be despised by a large portion of the country and treated like you are THE problem. There's plenty of reasons why someone would not want to continue or go into that line of work that don't involve being scared of the black man. And if not for fear for themselves then possibly fear for their families. How the stresses of that kind of life affects them.

Now you explain how you see someone like that as "not deserving of the badge."

 

[Saintman2884]

That's not the conversation that was being had here though. If you're a cop and you feel your time is up, by all means, retire/resign. But if you quitting because of increased scrutiny, you have to ask yourself why you joined in the first place. If you are doing the job the right way and holding your co-workers to that same high standard, then the increased scrutiny shouldn't be such a deterrent that would make you quit.

Okay, that makes more sense at least on the law enforcement angle. But, like a lot of other stressful, mentally taxing jobs, sometimes people who decide to quit or leave because of increased scrutiny aren't leaving because they didnt understand the risks, challenges, the politics that go back and forth, sometimes or throughout most of their careers, they were very good at their jobs and achieved consistent results.

Give you a great example, from the late 70's-1981, Ron Meyer helped build up one of the most talented, winniest NCAAF programs at SMU. He helped recruit Eric Dickerson, Craig James, and made SMU's "Pony Express" one of most exciting, successful programs during AND after Meyer's departure.

BUT, AGAIN about that decision to suddenly leave SMU and accept the HC position at New England after the 1981 season ended, when asked by reporters why he was suddenly leaving a talented, NCAAF program he'd rebuilt, Meyer just said "I just feel like its my time to leave and move on", very brief but very ambiguous. Meyer had helped recruit a lot of great individual players to SMU using a pay-for-performance scheme and although the payouts were smaller and more clandestine then what his successors would later do it, Meyer left SMU because he likely knew one day NCAA investigators would discover his illegal payments to potential recruits and if he was still the team's HC when the scandal broke(which it did 5 years later), his promising HC career would be over and his reputation discredited and ruined.

Was Meyer being a coward by quitting and leaving a NCAAF program for a more lucrative NFL HC job even though he likely knew the illegal payouts to SMU players he started probably would continue and increase under a different HC staff who might run it a little more recklessly to where the scandal blows up and destroys the school's football program forever? Its taken SMU almost 3 decades to even assemble rosters that are 30-40% as talented, have the depth, expedience and effective recruiters that they had from the late 70's-mid 80's.

 

[DaveXA]

Also, would like to add, people do change. After a few years on the job, some might realize they're just not cut out of that kind of work. There's no shame in that. Resign and go find something else where you'll be a better fit. Police work is absolutely not for everyone. It's a hard and mentally tough job. I freely admit I wouldn't make a good cop. I'm probably too old now anyway, lol.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

...Now you explain how you see someone like that as "not deserving of the badge."

Asked and answered.

If I believe their reasoning for walking away is a dishonorable one, yes.

That is to say that I believe that leaving LE because of increased scrutiny of police misconduct is not honorable reasoning.

If you're a cop and you feel your time is up, by all means, retire/resign. But if you quitting because of increased scrutiny, you have to ask yourself why you joined in the first place. If you are doing the job the right way and holding your co-workers to that same high standard, then the increased scrutiny shouldn't be such a deterrent that would make you quit.

 

[livefromDC]

You’re kinda making a point for me I hadn’t realized I was making
only teaching the ‘good’ kids who already know how to do what you want them to do is not really teaching
protecting the already super protected should not be the point of policing

Thats exactly what I got from it as well. I think you have taught before. I've taught nursing students and college micro, and this is exactly what I got from his statement. If I had to guess, I think most teachers would read this the same way.