Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Trailer (2 Viewers)

I still don't understand the decision to remove an entire virus sublot. Film studios do their best to take advantage of current events and tell a relevant story. Must have been some political influence, which once again ruins things more than it helps.
 
I still don't understand the decision to remove an entire virus sublot. Film studios do their best to take advantage of current events and tell a relevant story. Must have been some political influence, which once again ruins things more than it helps.
you seemed to have started with your conclusion and worked backwards

this happens plenty - several movies/shows were delayed or shelved after 9/11
I know I’ve heard of a few that changed after the Vegas sniper
It happens
 
I still don't understand the decision to remove an entire virus sublot. Film studios do their best to take advantage of current events and tell a relevant story. Must have been some political influence, which once again ruins things more than it helps.

I tend to agree, there have been many shows that cover current controversial topics. That said, Disney does have significant business interests in many parts of the world, so depending on what the virus plot called for, it may have been that Disney made an executive decision to cut it out. It's understandable, I think.

It's possible that it was cut out so late in the process that there was not enough time to produce it with the virus angle in a way that would add to the story without looking like an add on for the sake of it.

I do think there was more that went on behind the scenes than we know. It's also possible they could be saving it for a later show or movie, idk.
 
I tend to agree, there have been many shows that cover current controversial topics. That said, Disney does have significant business interests in many parts of the world, so depending on what the virus plot called for, it may have been that Disney made an executive decision to cut it out. It's understandable, I think.

It's possible that it was cut out so late in the process that there was not enough time to produce it with the virus angle in a way that would add to the story without looking like an add on for the sake of it.

I do think there was more that went on behind the scenes than we know. It's also possible they could be saving it for a later show or movie, idk.
For me the most egregious‘political/commercial’ decisions Disney makes us fridging gay characters to avoid Chinese censorship

I also wonder if Marvel pulls up from being too critical of US govt bc ‘international audiences’
 
For me the most egregious‘political/commercial’ decisions Disney makes us fridging gay characters to avoid Chinese censorship

I also wonder if Marvel pulls up from being too critical of US govt bc ‘international audiences’

First paragraph...such as?

Second. Possibly, but, I think it's really a continuation of a pro-US theme that has long been a thrust of Marvel comics storytelling.

That said, there's plenty of making the US government look like a bunch of incompetents. Tony Stark made a living off of making our military and Congressional leaders look like idiots. Nick Fury and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, Avengers, and actually a lot of Marvel properties have been at odds with the US government. That's never really been a secret. So there may be some pulling back, but it seems there's plenty of us vs them when it comes to the US government. You wouldn't see anything like that with shows criticizing their own governments in China or Russia for example.

So if Marvel is pulling up, it's hard to tell from where I sit.
 
First paragraph...such as?

Second. Possibly, but, I think it's really a continuation of a pro-US theme that has long been a thrust of Marvel comics storytelling.

That said, there's plenty of making the US government look like a bunch of incompetents. Tony Stark made a living off of making our military and Congressional leaders look like idiots. Nick Fury and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, Avengers, and actually a lot of Marvel properties have been at odds with the US government. That's never really been a secret. So there may be some pulling back, but it seems there's plenty of us vs them when it comes to the US government. You wouldn't see anything like that with shows criticizing their own governments in China or Russia for example.

So if Marvel is pulling up, it's hard to tell from where I sit.


I agree. These days most movies revolve around the US government being heartless, evil or incompetent. It’s pretty much the norm
 
I liked this show more than Wandavision. I liked Wandavision but when our own theories are better than what we got then that's a problem.

I'm kind of the opposite on this. I thought Wandavision was much better and I thought this, while entertaining, was pretty disappointing. It was a pretty mundane story that felt rushed. It could have been more, but they seemed to have just rushed it to fit it in 6 episodes for some reason.

As far as Wandavision, I think it's become all to common with the rise of things like Reddit that people overanalyze shows, create their own theories of what is going on, and then are disappointed/enraged when the show doesn't do the storyline that they thought they were going to do. Personally, I just like to watch a show and judge it based on what they did do, not some theory I had about what it could have been. Which is why I think The Falcon and The Winter Soldier was pretty meh. The story they gave us just wasn't a particularly good story.
 
I'm kind of the opposite on this. I thought Wandavision was much better and I thought this, while entertaining, was pretty disappointing. It was a pretty mundane story that felt rushed. It could have been more, but they seemed to have just rushed it to fit it in 6 episodes for some reason.

As far as Wandavision, I think it's become all to common with the rise of things like Reddit that people overanalyze shows, create their own theories of what is going on, and then are disappointed/enraged when the show doesn't do the storyline that they thought they were going to do. Personally, I just like to watch a show and judge it based on what they did do, not some theory I had about what it could have been. Which is why I think The Falcon and The Winter Soldier was pretty meh. The story they gave us just wasn't a particularly good story.

I know it sounds reductionist, but...Covid. It's really that simple. Considering they had to pull a major plot line, and likely some minor ones, I can understand why some might feel it's somewhat incomplete.

That said, they did close out some major plot points and set us up for future shows/movies. I loved the show. Yeah, wish there was more, sure, but I still liked it quite a bit.





Yeah, I was. :hihi:
 
I know it sounds reductionist, but...Covid. It's really that simple. Considering they had to pull a major plot line, and likely some minor ones, I can understand why some might feel it's somewhat incomplete.

That said, they did close out some major plot points and set us up for future shows/movies. I loved the show. Yeah, wish there was more, sure, but I still liked it quite a bit.

I'm sure it was COVID related. But, like I said, I tend to judge on what I get in the show and I found it kind of disappointing. I mean, it was better than most of the junk you get on network TV, but I expect more from Disney and Marvel. If it wasn't quite ready, I think they should have just waited a few more months to get it there.
 
I'm sure it was COVID related. But, like I said, I tend to judge on what I get in the show and I found it kind of disappointing. I mean, it was better than most of the junk you get on network TV, but I expect more from Disney and Marvel. If it wasn't quite ready, I think they should have just waited a few more months to get it there.
Sure, but at the expense of possibly pushing back the entire phase? I'm not sure either they or us are ready to mess with the overall schedule that much. It's already been modified quite a bit. It's a calculated risk, sure, but with Marvel having so many moving parts, sometimes you have to go with what you have. And it's also possible they'll address some of the missing parts later in the phase.

All that said, what would you say is missing from the show?
 
Sure, but at the expense of possibly pushing back the entire phase? I'm not sure either they or us are ready to mess with the overall schedule that much. It's already been modified quite a bit. It's a calculated risk, sure, but with Marvel having so many moving parts, sometimes you have to go with what you have. And it's also possible they'll address some of the missing parts later in the phase.

All that said, what would you say is missing from the show?

It's hard to say, but I guess there was a lack of real character development. For instance, the John Walker character goes from good guy to insance murdered back to good guy with no real explanation. He clearly goes insane because of the serum, but no explanation of how he comes back from that. I also thought that the tension between Bucky and Sam was kind of contrived and only saved by the fact that Anthony Mackie is a great actor. Then there is the lack of development to the story of the flag smashers, the Valentina woman, and Sharon Carter. And, from a pure enjoyment point of view, I wanted more Wakanda stuff in the show.

I get that all those things will probably be fleshed out in the broader MCU and that this may set up a lot of things like Captain America 4, but it seems like this entire show was more of bridge show to set up further properties in the MCU than telling a cohesive story.
 
First paragraph...such as?

Second. Possibly, but, I think it's really a continuation of a pro-US theme that has long been a thrust of Marvel comics storytelling.

That said, there's plenty of making the US government look like a bunch of incompetents. Tony Stark made a living off of making our military and Congressional leaders look like idiots. Nick Fury and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, Avengers, and actually a lot of Marvel properties have been at odds with the US government. That's never really been a secret. So there may be some pulling back, but it seems there's plenty of us vs them when it comes to the US government. You wouldn't see anything like that with shows criticizing their own governments in China or Russia for example.

So if Marvel is pulling up, it's hard to tell from where I sit.
Valkyrie, Loki (bi), Wanda's kids story cutting out right before sexuality
then there was marvel seeming to bristle at the broshipping of Cap & bucky - Sharon seemed to have been deployed just to give Cap a female to kiss on (the story does not make a lot of sense)

the 'pulling up' is Marvel engaging in legit conversation, but avoiding consequence at the end
GRC does not suffer consequence, no consequence for what happened to Isiah,
Magneto is right but nothing gets fixed, Kilmonger is right but nothing gets fixed
i think Garry Shandling is the only govt type that suffers consequence
 
It's hard to say, but I guess there was a lack of real character development. For instance, the John Walker character goes from good guy to insance murdered back to good guy with no real explanation. He clearly goes insane because of the serum, but no explanation of how he comes back from that. I also thought that the tension between Bucky and Sam was kind of contrived and only saved by the fact that Anthony Mackie is a great actor. Then there is the lack of development to the story of the flag smashers, the Valentina woman, and Sharon Carter. And, from a pure enjoyment point of view, I wanted more Wakanda stuff in the show.

I get that all those things will probably be fleshed out in the broader MCU and that this may set up a lot of things like Captain America 4, but it seems like this entire show was more of bridge show to set up further properties in the MCU than telling a cohesive story.

For Walker, he was insecure from the word go. Insecure good guys make mistakes. And while I think the serum did cause his rage induced killing, him losing his best friend really was the trigger as much if not more than the serum. Even after, he struggled to do the right thing when he wanted to kill Karli, but knew the people in the armored vehicle were about to face death. So, from start to finish, we're never entirely sure where exactly he stands. That's a byproduct of his insecurities imo.
 

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