Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Trailer (5 Viewers)

[livefromDC]

the meta of phase 4 - other than coming to terms with/consequences of super powers - is 'what are the offspring of the Avengers?'
Ironman begets all sorts of 'iron' heroes, Wanda + Vision creates offspring which will be part of New Avengers, there will be be a new iteration of Thor, et al
Sam & Bucky are offspring of Cap - that seems to be enough

Don't forget Hawkeye! Geez, what does he have to do to get some credit! He's an original Avenger for crying out loud. His series is about him passing on the name to his daughter, I believe.

 

[St. Widge]

I don't think you're wrong. That is EXACTLY what's going on. I don't think I would call what they have a friendship in the beginning either except for the common goal of 'doing what Steve would have done if he was still here' and disliking the new guy because he doesn't get what Steve was all about. For some different reasons, I think both of them see this guy as a fraud. Bucky knew Steve, long before he was Captain America. Sam was the closest person to Steve as Captain America. In both cases, the other person is the only person in the world that really understands this loss. That's the reason they are drawn to each other. How could they not try to work with each other? Steve, though he didn't understand what it would mean for Sam to take on the mantle (different discussion) would know that Sam would need Bucky's help and would want Bucky to help him. Steve also probably thought that Sam, someone that he considered a good friend, would also be the best person to be there for Bucky, someone else who comes from a different time period and could have trouble adjusting to the world outside the confines of Wakanda.



I've never been to Wakanda, but I'd imagine it's different than being in the rest of the world. Fighting is something we know he can do, so being called to action in Infinity War would not be hard. Finding your identity again in a real world setting has to be hard. He was the Winter Soldier for what 6 decades? (Forgive me I don't know canon) And the last time he was himself he was a basically a kid who joined the Army to fight Nazis. Not being the Winter Soldier is one thing. Being deprogrammed is one thing. Unless they replaced that programming with another (of course Shuri wouldn't have done that), that's all deprogramming does. He doesn't come back having an identity, friends and family, enjoying the NFL (non-existent) and podcasts. There's a void there. His identity, no one's identity for that matter, should be what they are not, i.e., not the Winter Soldier or not a Doctor or not a great swimmer, but who they are.

He's finally come to grips that he's not the Winter Soldier and trusts that those words won't reactivate something in him. He cares about the damage that was done by the Winter Soldier. I think by the end of the season, he's looking for ways to just make himself feel better about what the Winter Soldier did, but how to make amends for the people affected by the Winter Soldier, in ways only he can do.

All good points and frankly, I want to see the things you brought up fleshed out on screen. I'm just a bit disappointed that we didn't get that in this series and I'm not sure how it would have fit in this series if they tried to do it. But, like you said, maybe that's for future seasons.

 

[DaveXA]

All good points and frankly, I want to see the things you brought up fleshed out on screen. I'm just a bit disappointed that we didn't get that in this series and I'm not sure how it would have fit in this series if they tried to do it. But, like you said, maybe that's for future seasons.

Yeah, I'm kind of hoping we'll see Isaiah in future seasons also.

 

[JLaneSaints]

the meta of phase 4 - other than coming to terms with/consequences of super powers - is 'what are the offspring of the Avengers?'
Ironman begets all sorts of 'iron' heroes, Wanda + Vision creates offspring which will be part of New Avengers, there will be be a new iteration of Thor, et al
Sam & Bucky are offspring of Cap - that seems to be enough

It seems to me that the "read between the lines" purpose of the TV shows are to set up Young Avengers. You get Billy and Tommy (Wiccan and Speed), FaWS set the grounds for Patriot, and I will assume that Loki will at some point transition into kid Loki, and of course the Hawkeye series will give us young Hawkeye. Then factor in Stature from the next Ant Man movie, and Miss America Chavez from Dr. Strange, and Young Avengers will be shaping up nicely.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Don't forget Hawkeye! Geez, what does he have to do to get some credit! He's an original Avenger for crying out loud. His series is about him passing on the name to his daughter, I believe.

Who?

 

[livefromDC]

It seems to me that the "read between the lines" purpose of the TV shows are to set up Young Avengers. You get Billy and Tommy (Wiccan and Speed), FaWS set the grounds for Patriot, and I will assume that Loki will at some point transition into kid Loki, and of course the Hawkeye series will give us young Hawkeye. Then factor in Stature from the next Ant Man movie, and Miss America Chavez from Dr. Strange, and Young Avengers will be shaping up nicely.

Where does Ms. Marvel fit in? Is she part of Young Avengers?

 

[DaveXA]

Who?

Yeah, I'm mad...lol. No respek!

 

[JLaneSaints]

Where does Ms. Marvel fit in? Is she part of Young Avengers?

Comics, no. Original Young Avengers was Patriot, Young Vision, Loki, Wiccan, Speed, Hawkeye (Kate Bishop, not the one the TV series will have), Stature and Hulkling.


Now, the MCU does do things slightly different, so I could see her on the team for the MCU, and would be perfectly fine with that.

 

[nolaspe]

I'm not sure if it's been said yet, but you know that Sam and Bucky are cool now b/c Bucky got invited to the cookout!

 

[Brock Meaux]

Comics, no. Original Young Avengers was Patriot, Young Vision, Loki, Wiccan, Speed, Hawkeye (Kate Bishop, not the one the TV series will have), Stature and Hulkling.


Now, the MCU does do things slightly different, so I could see her on the team for the MCU, and would be perfectly fine with that.

Kate Bishop will be in the Hawkeye series. Played by Hailee Steinfeld.

 

[JLaneSaints]

Kate Bishop will be in the Hawkeye series. Played by Hailee Steinfeld.

My bad. Last I had read Hailee was playing the next Hawkeye, just not Kate. Guess I heard that one wrong.

 

[hockey2112]

Full disclosure - I get a bit sentimental every time I see and hear the MCU opening. It feels like it’s been several years since me and my family sat in a theater on opening night for a new Marvel movie.

I always blast the intro... makes me feel like I am in the theater.

I thought the finale was good not great. 75/100.

One of my main (few) complaints was the handling of Bucky's confession at the end. "I killed your son" "Why?" "/sad faces/" => time for sushi! That scene alone should have lasted several minutes.

 

[CajunInVA]

Agreed. Although it's somewhat understandable. At the end of Endgame Steve gave the shield to Sam. Bucky was there when it happened. They both probably thought Steve was going to give it to Bucky. So this series was about Bucky finding his role along with Sam's journey to making the shield his own.

While I acknowledge Zemo probably wasn't needed, I liked him in the show.

The series probably really needed to be 10-12 episodes to really cover all the bases. 6 was just not sufficient.

I thought I heard Bucky tell Sam that he (Bucky) and Steve had discussed handing off the shield to Sam. Here is blurb from Episode 5:

Sam: The legacy of that shield is complicated, to say the least.

Bucky: When Steve told me what he was planning, I don't think we understood what it felt like for a Black man to be handed the shield. How could we? I owe you an apology. I'm sorry.

Sam: Thank you.

Bucky and Steve discussed his plans...

 

[TheRealJRad]

I thought it was pretty obvious Bucky knew about Steve's plan in Endgame. Their goodbye wasn't a "see you in a sec", Bucky knew where to look for Steve, and Bucky knew to tell Sam to go talk to him.

 

[DaveXA]

I thought it was pretty obvious Bucky knew about Steve's plan in Endgame. Their goodbye wasn't a "see you in a sec", Bucky knew where to look for Steve, and Bucky knew to tell Sam to go talk to him.

Yeah, you're right. I just forgot about that part. I was thinking Bucky was surprised, but it was just Sam.