Saints Ian Book vs Clemson (1 Viewer)

Ian Book might be the singular worst pick in the entire draft for these reasons:
1. He will never start a game in the NFL
2. The team drafting him had big needs at two or three other positions where they possibly could have drafted future starters
3. He will offer no contribution to a team that will be on the playoff bubble who will need contributions everywhere
4. He lacks just about every asset needed at the position he was taken
5. He was drafted too high among most experts.
6. He reminded the team drafting him of their HC when he played and that HC was horrible and only played during a strike year.
7. Cannot play special teams when he flames out at position drafted
8. Did I say he won’t ever start a game in NFL?
9. Forgot one, Payton will want to prove he’s right by keeping him longer than he should without looking for next franchise QB
 
I see more of a Tony Romo comp as the optimum vision. Romo and Payton went to the same college, played the same position, and Romo was the first choice before Brees for Payton because he coached Romo in Dallas and was responsible for brining Romo into Dallas as a rookie free agent.
 
I see more of a Tony Romo comp as the optimum vision. Romo and Payton went to the same college, played the same position, and Romo was the first choice before Brees for Payton because he coached Romo in Dallas and was responsible for brining Romo into Dallas as a rookie free agent.
I like this comp! I wasn’t crazy about the pick, but hearing just about every “expert” dump all over it, I’m really rooting for the kid.

He seems to be a gritty competitor and I think he’s got some of “it”... the thing that makes a QB a leader and guy that could beat the odds.
 
As a ND fan id say his main negatives are:
- armstrength that is lacking enough to imho be prohibitive as it was a clear issue and very restricting on the offense even in college
- Mid and Deep accuracy, short accuracy is acceptable
- Pocket presence is worse than absent, he manages at times to find a pass rush where there really is none
- Size obviously
- Dont think his scrambling skills will translate to the nfl with better athletes across from him (that being said, it did work against bigger teams in college)
- Gets stuck in negative spirals at times

imho these should be enough to never draft a guy like this but there are also very clear positives
- Absolutely great and bright kid, will fight his arse off
- Pretty good improviser
- Smart and effective scrambler
- Decent accuracy on the run going to his right, to his left its kinda meh
- Great locker room guy
- Have no doubt hell pick up the playbook well and quickly
In the JT O'Sullivan review he noted that Book throws off of his toes, and would generate more power off of his whole foot. I don't know whether that's true, but if so, then it seems that some coaching could help his velocity. That aside, in the Clemson game, he threw one ball over 50 yards in the air, and his arm strength didn't seem to be a problem throughout the game. Also, I didn't watch him much, but he seemed to have good pocket presence in that game. There was one easy TD dropped in that game, and another that could've been a TD, plus he may have gotten another one if not for his fumble at the 1 yard line. His accuracy looked good, and in general he was impressive.
 
As a ND fan id say his main negatives are:
- armstrength that is lacking enough to imho be prohibitive as it was a clear issue and very restricting on the offense even in college
- Mid and Deep accuracy, short accuracy is acceptable
- Pocket presence is worse than absent, he manages at times to find a pass rush where there really is none
- Size obviously
- Dont think his scrambling skills will translate to the nfl with better athletes across from him (that being said, it did work against bigger teams in college)
- Gets stuck in negative spirals at times

imho these should be enough to never draft a guy like this but there are also very clear positives
- Absolutely great and bright kid, will fight his arse off
- Pretty good improviser
- Smart and effective scrambler
- Decent accuracy on the run going to his right, to his left its kinda meh
- Great locker room guy
- Have no doubt hell pick up the playbook well and quickly

Good honest opinion from a fan. Thanks.

To be honest, I only watched a couple ND games this past season and the QB play did not stand out to me. In fact, when I saw we drafted Ian Book... I had to go look up where he played. One game I did watch was the mid-season upset where they beat Clemson. Clemson was down some people including their all-world QB, but I remember thinking their back up was gonna be the next good one.

After watching the "Ian Book vs Clemson" cleft-notes video in this thread... it kinda came back to me. I remember thinking that Notre Dame was in that game despite their passing game. Ian extended some drives with his legs and made a few good throws, but there was no consistency. Now granted, even a depleted Clemson roster can make anyone struggle. The DBs had the receivers covered very tight on most plays. The tight window throws were hit or miss. It kind of reminded me of how the Saints offense has worked lately with a lot throws going to receivers close to the LOS with a lot of defenders in the area of the catch. Granted MT and TQS are dawgs when it comes to contested catches, many of those balls have to be threaded between DBs with only inches to spare. I'm not sure that's going to be Book's strong point.

Accuracy and arm strength are 2 traits I've always heard are not learnable. Ball placement is. If a QB is accurate, he can learn where and when to place the throw. But college QBs with accuracy issues become pro's with accuracy issues. I'm not football learned enough to know which it is with this kid. Maybe it's his ball placement and Carmichael and Lombardi can teach him up. I'm going to take a wait and see approach with him. He was available that late in the draft for a reason. IMO, drafting a QB is never a wasted pick. Guys that can handle that position in the pros are few and far between, and I think you should leave no stone unturned looking for one. I'm hoping the best for him, and would absolutely love to see him do as Drew did and prove the critics and experts wrong. But I'm not going to expect anything more than I would expect from a late round WR or LB.
 
Who knows what Manziel might have done had he had his head on straight.

Book is very similar but Manziel was faster.
Actually Ian Book is slightly faster than Manziel, and Manziel is slightly quicker. Their measurables are almost identical.


Height: 6-0
Weight: 211 pounds
Arm: 31 3/8″
Wingspan: 75 7/8″
Hand: 9 7/8″
225 lb. Bench Press: Did not do
40-yard dash: 4.59 seconds
Vertical jump: 32 1/2″
Broad jump: 9’7″ (115")
20-yard shuttle: 4.13 seconds
3 cone drill: 6.70 seconds



Johnny Manziel:
HeightWeightArm lengthHand size40-yard dashBench pressBroad jumpVertical JumpShuttle3-Cone
5'11 3/4"207 lbs31 3/8"9 7/8"4.68113"31.5"4.036.75
 
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Ian Book might be the singular worst pick in the entire draft for these reasons:
2. The team drafting him had big needs at two or three other positions where they possibly could have drafted future starters

What position was still a big need after DL, LB, and CB? Those positions were addressed in the first 3 picks. What player in the 4th round could have possibly started on the Saints?

A lot of players who were ranked with 3rd-4th round grades fell to the 6th-7th or went undrafted. One of them was Saints’ UDFA signing Trill Williams.

This was not a strong draft to find projected starters after the first 3 rounds.
 
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Say what you want about him but he only lost 5 games and won many big games. He’s a dual threat QB with good pocket awareness. His arm is good enough but not elite. So was Brees’.
He had over 1,100 pass attempts in college. This is a huge stat that helps with succeeding in the NFL. Playing QB is about experience and reps, reps, reps.

And then there’s Sean Payton, don’t underestimate what he can turn Ian Book into. He did it with Brees, a guy many people underestimated. This was Sean’s pick, just like AK was in 2017.


Regarding his lack of arm strength, at the 1:00 minute mark you'll see his throw off his back foot 35 yards in the air, perfect back shoulder fade on a rope.

So he definitely has more than adequate arm strength.
 
Actually Ian Book is slightly faster than Manziel, and Manziel is slightly quicker. Their measurables are almost identical.


Height: 6-0
Weight: 211 pounds
Arm: 31 3/8″
Wingspan: 75 7/8″
Hand: 9 7/8″
225 lb. Bench Press: Did not do
40-yard dash: 4.59 seconds
Vertical jump: 32 1/2″
Broad jump: 9’7″ (115")
20-yard shuttle: 4.13 seconds
3 cone drill: 6.70 seconds



Johnny Manziel:
HeightWeightArm lengthHand size40-yard dashBench pressBroad jumpVertical JumpShuttle3-Cone
5'11 3/4"207 lbs31 3/8"9 7/8"4.68113"31.5"4.036.75

Yeah for some reason I remembered Manziel running a 4.5.

Faulty memory but yes, Manzeil did have elite change of direction skills. He had a legendary shuttle and 3 cone for a qb and a stronger arm.

Probably a quicker release too.


 
Regarding his lack of arm strength, at the 1:00 minute mark you'll see his throw off his back foot 35 yards in the air, perfect back shoulder fade on a rope.

So he definitely has more than adequate arm strength.
Tre Lance and Justin Fields can throw 60+ air yards Flat-footed.

See Fields pass to Olave vs Clemson.






35 yards is nothing.
 
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I really didn’t see many “what in the world was he looking at” plays in that Clemson clip. He was blitzed relentlessly too and had a few critical misses as well as a few gorgeous throws.

Draft gurus: Is talent that the QB is surrounded with ever factored into a QB’s performance or lack there of? I heard a lot of talk about Mac Jones’s all star WR list but do analysts ever factor a lack of great WR talent as to why a QB performs worse?
 
What position was still a big need after DL, LB, and CB? Those positions were addressed in the first 3 picks. What player in the 4th round could have possibly started on the Saints?

A lot of players who were ranked with 3rd-4th round grades fell to the 6th-7th or went undrafted. One of them was Saints’ UDFA signing Trill Williams.

This was not a strong draft to find projected starters after the first 3 rounds.
DT, WR, TE.

Davyion Nixon, Jonathan Marshall, Jacob Harris, Zach Davidson, KJ Britt, Nick Niemann, Keith Taylor, Marco Wilson, Buddy Johnson, Ihmir Smith-Marsette, Josh Kaindoh, Brevin Jordan, etc.

The list goes on.
 
I really didn’t see many “what in the world was he looking at” plays in that Clemson clip. He was blitzed relentlessly too and had a few critical misses as well as a few gorgeous throws.

Draft gurus: Is talent that the QB is surrounded with ever factored into a QB’s performance or lack there of? I heard a lot of talk about Mac Jones’s all star WR list but do analysts ever factor a lack of great WR talent as to why a QB performs worse?
Dude had Chase Claypool, Tommy Tremble, Miles Boykin, etc.

His inability to throw the ball far or with much velocity has nothing to do with his wrs.
 

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