Gotta Re-sign Jameis at This Point (2 Viewers)

[StudioSaint]

This is being taken out of context now. My initial response was to the suggestion that he should come in and throw the ball more...

The only thing that's out of context is that I made any suggestion that Hill "should" throw the ball more.

Payton said himself that he gave Hill's those snaps, including passing snaps, to stress opposing defenses.

It's not true that Taysom started throwing long attempts as Drew's arm got weaker. Drew attempted more long passes than Hill. Hill did not attempt many long passes. Most of Hill's pass attempts were less than 20 yards. A lot of Hill's passes were inside the red zone. Brees had plenty of arm strength to make all of those passes.

Payton didn't use Hill to make passes that Brees couldn't, that just doesn't reflect what actually happened. Payton subbed in Hill for Winston this year to throw some passes. Did Payton sub Hill in for Winston because Winston's arm got weaker or because Hill could make throws that Winston couldn't?

If Hill is not the starting QB, unless Payton completely changes his coaching philosophy and strategy, then he will most likely continue to give Hill some QB snaps, just like he has for the past 3 seasons.

Since he does it to give defenses a lot to prepare for and Hill was throwing the ball well in his last game, then it's likely that he'll increase the number and variety of passing plays that he calls for Hill, to give defenses that much more to prepare for.

None of that is me saying Payton "should" have Hill throw the ball more. I'm saying that based on what we've seen and heard from Payton over the last few years, I think he's going to keep adding to what he has Hill do when he subs him in at QB.

 

[El Caliente]

I get your point, but it’s because the starter wants to be under center, running the offense and potentially checking out of the called RB/FB run when he sees the D exposed to the pass presnap.

How many big plays and TDs did Brees create by checking out of run plays? We’ll never know the exact number, but A LOT would be an accurate answer, I bet.

Even the play that a lot of Saints fans think secured the starting position for JW in the preseason game against Jax, was a called run that Winston audibles out of because he saw press man outside and a zero safety look.

How many times has Sean let Taysom audible out of QB power when he was inserted to run that play? None is my guess.

Not saying I don’t ever want Hill taking snaps from QB1, but to say there is no valid reason for QB1 to not like it is inaccurate.

I understand your point about the feelings of guys trying to get their numbers, but someone can get me 5.3 yards per run, then heck with someone caught up in their feelings to the point where they can’t sacrifice a play or 4 a game for us to get a near certain 5.3 yards.

I think better of Drew and Jameis (or Rodgers and Wilson) than to think they are that petty to put their own stats ahead of the team.

 

[Judge_Smails]

The only thing that's out of context is that I made any suggestion that Hill "should" throw the ball more.

Payton said himself that he gave Hill's those snaps, including passing snaps, to stress opposing defenses.

It's not true that Taysom started throwing long attempts as Drew's arm got weaker. Drew attempted more long passes than Hill. Hill did not attempt many long passes. Most of Hill's pass attempts were less than 20 yards. A lot of Hill's passes were inside the red zone. Brees had plenty of arm strength to make all of those passes.

Payton didn't use Hill to make passes that Brees couldn't, that just doesn't reflect what actually happened. Payton subbed in Hill for Winston this year to throw some passes. Did Payton sub Hill in for Winston because Winston's arm got weaker or because Hill could make throws that Winston couldn't?

If Hill is not the starting QB, unless Payton completely changes his coaching philosophy and strategy, then he will most likely continue to give Hill some QB snaps, just like he has for the past 3 seasons.

Since he does it to give defenses a lot to prepare for and Hill was throwing the ball well in his last game, then it's likely that he'll increase the number and variety of passing plays that he calls for Hill, to give defenses that much more to prepare for.

None of that is me saying Payton "should" have Hill throw the ball more. I'm saying that based on what we've seen and heard from Payton over the last few years, I think he's going to keep adding to what he has Hill do when he subs him in at QB.

Are you confident Hill fully recovers from his foot injuries and can be ready by camp, game 1, or any point this season?

I feel like if anyone could he is one of those guys, but it’s no sure thing his wheels will ever be as good as they were during the the last game right?

 

[St. Widge]

I am sure Hill has the leeway to change the play when he is actually working as QB1, but when he is inserted in place of QB1, specifically to run one play that has mostly been QB power, I’ve never seen him kill that play and go to something else. And when he’s been similarly inserted to throw for one play, I’ve never seen him kill that play.

Yeah, I was talking about this year when Payton would seemingly decide it was time for Hill to run QB Power for a series. I don't think Hill ever audibled out of it and I would have to guess there were situation where he could have made some plays by making an audible to a pass play out of that look. But, it is possible that when he wasn't QB 1 Payton would not let him audible out of QB Power. But it seems odd to put a guy on the field if you trust him that little.

 

[Judge_Smails]

I understand your point about the feelings of guys trying to get their numbers, but someone can get me 5.3 yards per run, then heck with someone caught up in their feelings to the point where they can’t sacrifice a play or 4 a game for us to get a near certain 5.3 yards.

I think better of Drew and Jameis (or Rodgers and Wilson) than to think they are that petty to put their own stats ahead of the team.

It’s not about QB1 getting numbers. It’s about the QB that is the “man” getting his team into the best play, every play. Some of the QB power calls Hill got stuffed on were probably against defensive alignments that were susceptible to something as simple as an audible to simple option route to AK from the same formation. But when TH is inserted to run that one play there is never an audible.

It’s probably why Drew always had that constipated look on his face when he got taken out of the game. It eliminates your best QB from using his superior ability to dissect the D before the snap.

 

[St. Widge]

Carolina, Rhule, and Willis... Yeah... I'm going to press X to doubt on that.


I can see them drafting Pickett or Coral if they go QB.

Not close to saying it's a lock. Just saying there is smoke about him going high and when that happens you start to see QBs rise up the board. If he has a great combine/Pro-Day/Individual workout he will shoot up the board due to the value of the QB positions. It happens every year. I mean that's how Wentz, Love, Lance, and Trubrisky ended up where they did. None of those guys should have been picked where they were, but the need for QBs and the potential upside made teams risk it.

And sure Pickett or Coral are possible to Carolina and likely go higher. But given draft history, all three could end up gone in the top 10 to top 15.

 

[Taker597]

Not close to saying it's a lock. Just saying there is smoke about him going high and when that happens you start to see QBs rise up the board. If he has a great combine/Pro-Day/Individual workout he will shoot up the board due to the value of the QB positions. It happens every year. I mean that's how Wentz, Love, Lance, and Trubrisky ended up where they did. None of those guys should have been picked where they were, but the need for QBs and the potential upside made teams risk it.

And sure Pickett or Coral are possible to Carolina and likely go higher. But given draft history, all three could end up gone in the top 10 to top 15.

I think Carolina are gonna run back Darnold. There is no better option. If Rhule draft a QB over a top shelf Oline prospect. Then, he's basically throwing up a white flag, because he's getting fired.

 

[nakadish]

It’s not about QB1 getting numbers. It’s about the QB that is the “man” getting his team into the best play, every play. Some of the QB power calls Hill got stuffed on were probably against defensive alignments that were susceptible to something as simple as an audible to simple option route to AK from the same formation. But when TH is inserted to run that one play there is never an audible.

It’s probably why Drew always had that constipated look on his face when he got taken out of the game. It eliminates your best QB from using his superior ability to dissect the D before the snap.

Hill's been pretty successful at that. As long as he is, Payton's going to keep calling it regardless of the QB. Payton's a pretty good coach. If any QB has issues with his play calling, they can play somewhere else. Payton's going to Payton.

 

[StudioSaint]

Are you confident Hill fully recovers from his foot injuries and can be ready by camp, game 1, or any point this season?

I feel like if anyone could he is one of those guys, but it’s no sure thing his wheels will ever be as good as they were during the the last game right?

I have no idea when or if he'll fully recover. I'm always hopeful and optimistic that every player makes a full recovery from an injury, but it's no sure thing just like you said. The injury could end up limiting him physically or possibly not allowing him to play. That would no doubt limit how, or even if, Payton tries to use him.

 

[nakadish]

I have no idea when or if he'll fully recover. I'm always hopeful and optimistic that every player makes a full recovery from an injury, but it's no sure thing just like you said. The injury could end up limiting him physically or possibly not allowing him to play. That would no doubt limit how, or even if, Payton uses him.

I don't think that's likely.

The Journal’s study also found that offensive players, like Hill, did not show a significant decline in either their career length or on-field performance after a Lisfranc injury, according to FanDuel.

 

[No2DC]

I think Carolina are gonna run back Darnold. There is no better option. If Rhule draft a QB over a top shelf Oline prospect. Then, he's basically throwing up a white flag, because he's getting fired.

Running it back with Donald is basically the same thing.

 

[Judge_Smails]

Hill's been pretty successful at that. As long as he is, Payton's going to keep calling it regardless of the QB. Payton's a pretty good coach. If any QB has issues with his play calling, they can play somewhere else. Payton's going to Payton.

Not disputing that at all, but it’s a real reason why most QB1s do not want to be taken off the field for any offensive snap for which they’re healthy.

 

[nakadish]

Not disputing that at all, but it’s a real reason why most QB1s do not want to be taken off the field for any offensive snap for which they’re healthy.

I don't know of any player that likes being taken off the field. But, they like winning more. As long as Payton fills the locker room with team first guys, it's not an issue. What happens when Hill scores a TD, or gets an important first down? Does anyone look disappointed? I don't know why fans are making this an issue. The team loves what Hill does. There's a reason Payton puts Hill in when they need a spark. That's what he does.

 

[TexasZed]

I understand your point about the feelings of guys trying to get their numbers, but someone can get me 5.3 yards per run, then heck with someone caught up in their feelings to the point where they can’t sacrifice a play or 4 a game for us to get a near certain 5.3 yards.

I think better of Drew and Jameis (or Rodgers and Wilson) than to think they are that petty to put their own stats ahead of the team.

Pro Players all have an ego.

Players have incentives based on stats

Franchise NFL QB's want to be on the field that is why a QB such as Brady refuse to come out of games

 

[Taker597]

Running it back with Donald is basically the same thing.

They both arrive to the same destination, I suppose. Darnold already getting paid.