Quest for a new head coach, considering we are # 28 on total offense, # 7 on total defense (1 Viewer)

[Snakehead]

So you want DA then?

If he's the best candidate for the job.

If I were building an organization and want to transition to a new leader without dropping off, I would hire from within. Bring in new talent in the coordinator levels to develop for future promotions.

DA got his first HC job at 32 y/o and then has learned under CSP since getting fired. So, he's been in other places and then grew/developed in this system.

 

[meily]

And that's how teams yo-yo.

You have to recognize that this isn't a normal coaching change. Most coaching changes come from a coach being fired or resigning before being fired. This is a coach who built a dynasty and has now stepped down/retired. The foundation is already built, it doesn't have to be torn down just to tear it down.

I do think the offense needs to be revamped. Whoever takes it over won't be Payton so the vision won't be the exact same. An offense with a few pieces in place already can be rebuilt in one off season through the draft, trades and free agency.

its a normal coaching change, you replace "fired" with retired" but the process to finding a new coach is the same. this is a talented team which mean who ever coaches it your probably in a better situation than say the Texans or Lions.

 

[Mississippi Saints Fan]

I mean, are we certain that if Dennis Allen is hired he won't decide to go another direction at OC? I mean maybe he loves Carmichael and wants him to stay, but it's also possible that he has someone else in mind for the job or wants to run a different style of offense.

Does anyone recall what kind of offense DA had with the Raiders and who his OC was?

And, I think the argument against Carmichael is that he had never done it without Payton around and last year without Brees was not pretty even with Payton around. I think and hope that was due to injuries and lack of players, but maybe there were other issues. Dennis Allen would certainly have a good idea about that.

I believe we had the #1 ranked offense in 2012 under Pete, while Payton was out.

 

[Snakehead]

its a normal coaching change, you replace "fired" with retired" but the process to finding a new coach is the same. this is a talented team which mean who ever coaches it your probably in a better situation than say the Texans or Lions.

Fired means the system wasn't working. Retired means the HC stepped down/retired.

 

[guillermo]

I have personally been back and forth on whether we need to hire an outside guy for HC or if we should go with Dennis Allen and let him tweak the staff however he wants to. Maybe he keeps everyone or maybe he changes the OC and some of the offensive and defensive staff. I think there are good arguments for both approaches.

Anyway, I was back to leaning toward going for an outside guy until I read this article by Underhill. And it's not so much the arguments he makes for DA. We all know them by now. It's that Underhill, who I think knows football and sees these guys work at practice, in training camp, and the interaction between coaches and players, thinks that Dennis Allen is simply the best choice for the job and a guy who shares the same vision as far as team culture is concerned that Payton had. I'm sure there would be some changes with DA. There would have been some changes even if Payton stays, but the fact that Underhill thinks DA is the best guy for the job, does make me wonder if there is any point in brining in someone from the outside that might not be any better?

Great article from Underhill, certainly the guy can express himself way better than I do.

My sentiments are the same as Nick, I am pulling for continuity. I don't see the need to break up something that is working for years, for a gamble coming on an interview that may last a couple of days as most.

Allen has to present a plan (particularly on offense) as meily stated on a different thread, but his interview has been years in the making, and has brought great results.

 

[St. Widge]

I believe we had the #1 ranked offense in 2012 under Pete, while Payton was out.

Sure, but I would bet that Payton still had input on the offense even if Payton wasn't technically allowed to help. And, I'm sure we have had to change to offense a lot since then. Also, the offense will have to be constantly adjusted to account for adjustments made by other teams. I suspect he can do all those things, but I honestly don't know. But, I suspect that Dennis Allen and Loomis know if he is the guy to do those things. I think he's a good OC, I'm just not sure whether he has the ability to innovate and you have to innovate in the NFL or other teams will eventually shut you down.

 

[fishing4food]

Just asking the question:

What happens if the Saints do hire Allen and Carmichael packs his bags and walks because he was looking for that promotion?

OP: Keep the staff intact

 

[Mississippi Saints Fan]

Sure, but I would bet that Payton still had input on the offense even if Payton wasn't technically allowed to help. And, I'm sure we have had to change to offense a lot since then. Also, the offense will have to be constantly adjusted to account for adjustments made by other teams. I suspect he can do all those things, but I honestly don't know. But, I suspect that Dennis Allen and Loomis know if he is the guy to do those things. I think he's a good OC, I'm just not sure whether he has the ability to innovate and you have to innovate in the NFL or other teams will eventually shut you down.

I don’t know if that’s a question that can be answered until he is given the chance. I guess my point is I haven’t seen anything to suggest he doesn’t deserve the chance. He took input from Payton, yes. Whoever is coaching next, he’ll take input from them. Maybe he’ll be given more control over the offense if we have a defensive-minded coach. Who knows? I guess the Saints staff would know best whether they feel he is capable. I’d guess the answer would be a loud yes since he’s been here so long. It would also be dependent on whether we hired an outsider with a totally different vision.

 

[St. Widge]

I don’t know if that’s a question that can be answered until he is given the chance. I guess my point is I haven’t seen anything to suggest he doesn’t deserve the chance. He took input from Payton, yes. Whoever is coaching next, he’ll take input from them. Maybe he’ll be given more control over the offense if we have a defensive-minded coach. Who knows? I guess the Saints staff would know best whether they feel he is capable. I’d guess the answer would be a loud yes since he’s been here so long. It would also be dependent on whether we hired an outsider with a totally different vision.

I think Loomis and Dennis Allen would have a pretty good idea what level of participation he had in creating the offense and in making adjustments to the offense. If he had a lot of input, then I suspect it means that Payton trusted him to do it which would be good enough for me. If he was just a guy who put the plays on the sheet based on Payton's plan and only changed the offense based on Payton's ideas then he's probably not the guy you want. But, I'm sure Allen and Loomis know the answer to that.

I've heard good things about Carmichael. I'm just saying I don't know if he is a guy that can do it without Payton and whoever the HC is should get to decide who the OC is.

 

[guillermo]

Just asking the question:

What happens if the Saints do hire Allen and Carmichael packs his bags and walks because he was looking for that promotion?

OP: Keep the staff intact

That can happen. Do you really think it's going to?

If Pete leaves, both Ronald Curry and Dan Roushar can be options to work under the scheme.

Curry has 6 years of experience working with the saints, focusing first on wide receivers and now with quarterbacks.

Roushar has worked with the offensive line, tight ends and coordinated the run game, he has experience as an offensive coordinator and has worked for the saints for 9 years now.

Ideally, both will work under Pete, but both will be strong candidates to take his position. Nothing bad about a good promotion.

 

[meily]

Fired means the system wasn't working. Retired means the HC stepped down/retired.

 

[meily]

Sure, but I would bet that Payton still had input on the offense even if Payton wasn't technically allowed to help. And, I'm sure we have had to change to offense a lot since then. Also, the offense will have to be constantly adjusted to account for adjustments made by other teams. I suspect he can do all those things, but I honestly don't know. But, I suspect that Dennis Allen and Loomis know if he is the guy to do those things. I think he's a good OC, I'm just not sure whether he has the ability to innovate and you have to innovate in the NFL or other teams will eventually shut you down.

It was PAYTONS OFFENSE, he just called the plays, is he a coordinator by trade or title is the real answer or is he just going to continue calling the plays left on the play sheets he's collected over the 16yr Payton has been here, can he scheme and develop.

 

[whoami]

You have convinced me. I was on the fence. D and ST are great now, we need to just fix O. Get Jameis to sign and find the next QB within the next 2-3 years. We will compete every year.

 

[OldSaintFan]

If the Saints hire Dennis Allen as Head Coach, i would be happy
with that. He could still run the defense which in our case would be vital. My concern would be, can Pete Carmichael be effective as the OC without having Payton calling the plays? If not,then a strong OC would have to be hired to replace him

 

[guillermo]

If the Saints hire Dennis Allen as Head Coach, i would be happ ywith that. He could still run the defense which in our case would be vital. My concern would be, can Pete Carmichael be effective as the OC without having Payton calling the plays? If not,then a strong OC would have to be hired to replace him

I am not worried about it, we do have over 16 games of Pete calling plays, and the offense worked fine under him.

And his background was working with Drew as a quarterbacks coach, actually, Drew brought him to the saints from San Diego. He became offensive coordinator until Doug Marrone left on 2009.