Ukraine (31 Viewers)

[mjcouvi]

What Russian significance are you referring to?

The Putin position. You think it’s not worth exploring, understanding? US policy would be wise to fully understand why he’s doing this, and how US policy contributed to his reasoning. Many people would like to just dismiss Putin as crazy. That attitude is so destructive.

 

[Taurus]

The Putin position. You think it’s not worth exploring, understanding? US policy would be wise to fully understand why he’s doing this, and how US policy contributed to his reasoning. Many people would like to just dismiss Putin as crazy. That attitude is so destructive.

The problem with such analysis is that we have no idea what Putin actually knows. He's obviously been fed a line of BS regarding Russian military readiness, so what other lies have been poured into his ears?

 

[DaveXA]

The Putin position. You think it’s not worth exploring, understanding? US policy would be wise to fully understand why he’s doing this, and how US policy contributed to his reasoning. Many people would like to just dismiss Putin as crazy. That attitude is so destructive.

I don't know if he's crazy. I do think he's driven by self-preservation though. The invasion was a terrible idea and ultimately, Russia will be much worse off having done it.

 

[Sailorsaint]

The problem with such analysis is that we have no idea what Putin actually knows. He's obviously been fed a line of BS regarding Russian military readiness, so what other lies have been poured into his ears?

That Ukraine is run by Nazis? That you can be a Jew and still be a Nazi?

 

[SamAndreas]

I have several questions about the sub attack but just to start...it's a nuc sub, why are they on the surface, especially that close to Ukraine? You don't command a nuc sub if you are an idiot, so that isn't it. Were the Ukrainians in the area by happenstance to see a surfaced sub? I don't know of any Ukrainian ability to track or even detect a submerged sub. This just seems weird to me because I would think of all the vessels in the Black Sea, a nuc sub would be the safest to be on and the hardest to detect/attack.

I don't think there's been an attack on a nuclear sub there. They only have old Kilo diesel-electric subs in that shallow bathtub.

I'm going to generally ignore YouTube news outfits that have robotic sounding announcers reading a script from now on.

Speed News, US Military News, and Trending News have all put out at least one report that has been posted in this thread so far that I found to be unbelievable.

 

[DaveXA]

That Ukraine is run by Nazis? That you can be a Jew and still be a Nazi?

Yeah, that whole narrative is bonkers and I think that just shows the desperation from the Russians. They've been invoking WWII a lot in their language. It's really disturbing.

 

[DaveXA]

I don't think there's been an attack on a nuclear sub there. They only have old Kilo diesel-electric subs in that shallow bathtub.

I'm going to generally ignore YouTube news outfits that have robotic sounding announcers reading a script from now on.

Speed News, US Military News, and Trending News have all put out at least one report that has been posted in this thread so far that I found to be unbelievable.

Yeah, separating wheat from chaff in the news is getting harder lately.

 

[Crzycjunx76]

The Putin position. You think it’s not worth exploring, understanding? US policy would be wise to fully understand why he’s doing this, and how US policy contributed to his reasoning. Many people would like to just dismiss Putin as crazy. That attitude is so destructive.

The problem is Ukraine, Finland, etc, are nations with a right to self determine.

If Putin had not spent so much time and effort trying to keep a puppet regime in power in the Ukraine... and then when his puppet govt wat removed by popular protests/rebellion... immedieatly seized Crimeia using Russian troops masquerading as sepratists, then maybe the Ukranian people would not want a defensive alliance so badly.

If Russia was not being an overt agressor, and spouting rhetoric that the baltics, Finland, and the slavic world is rightfully theirs to influence/control... Finland would not be likely to join NATO.

Now am argument could be made that we have done more than our fair share of denying peoples around the world their right to self governance in the name of protecting our interests.

Does not mean it was right, and there has been a lot of critical evaluation of US actions of the past/present up thread. The hypocracy of our current stance or our selective involvement/defense of our supposed core ideals.

Does not make Putin's position in wanting to deny the sovernity of his neighbor and its people any less wrong.

 

[efil4stnias]

But is the Crimean Bridge still standing??

 

[efil4stnias]

The Putin position. You think it’s not worth exploring, understanding? US policy would be wise to fully understand why he’s doing this, and how US policy contributed to his reasoning. Many people would like to just dismiss Putin as crazy. That attitude is so destructive.

what US policy? Democracy?

What do you want to understand exactly? and why? Most people arent dismissing and most know he isnt crazy. He is an authoritarian and interested in his own personal visions/legacy.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

The Putin position. You think it’s not worth exploring, understanding? US policy would be wise to fully understand why he’s doing this, and how US policy contributed to his reasoning. Many people would like to just dismiss Putin as crazy. That attitude is so destructive.

Do you think Putin actually believes his stated position?

If his goal was to stop NATO expansion, invading Ukraine was the worst possible move. Putin isn't stupid, he had to know that this would drive Scandinavia into NATO.

 

[mjcouvi]

That Ukraine is run by Nazis? That you can be a Jew and still be a Nazi?

OK, no. I feel I must address this.

This is such a superficial reason for war that I can't believe you even state it here.

Putin is under the impression that the land under contention is best served by a Russian power. His feeling, and, personally, I do actually believe he is extending a form of nazism with his position, rather than preventing nazism -- anyhow, he's not expanding freedom. He is taking it at will. I do not pretend to know any good solution except I would like those who govern me to stay out of it. I think that is best-practice for Americans regarding the controversy. I think it's best to keep emotions out of it, for the sake of our close brethren, here in our country.

This territory, half a world away, is not our business and I hope the voters elect someone who will say "STOP!" That will happen in my lifetime, a leader who is led by peace in actual form, and it's the reason I find the future so hopeful.

 

[efil4stnias]

OK, no. I feel I must address this. This is such a superficial reason for war that I can't believe you even state it here. Putin is under the impression that the land under contention is best served by a Russian power. His feeling, and, personally, I do actually believe he is extending a form of nazism with his position, rather than preventing nazism. He's not expanding freedom. He is taking it at will. I do not pretend to know any good solution except I would like those who govern me to stay out of it. I think that is best-practice for Americans regarding the controversy. I think it's best to keep emotions out of it, for the sake of our close brethren, here in our country.

So your solution is to "close ranks" and let the under-supplied, over-matched Ukrainians deal with it?

Question...if your child is friends with another child who is being bullied, do you tell your child " dont get involved" or do you tell your child " stand up for your friend"?

 

[Sailorsaint]

OK, no. I feel I must address this. This is such a superficial reason for war that I can't believe you even state it here. Putin is under the impression that the land under contention is best served by a Russian power. His feeling, and, personally, I do actually believe he is extending a form of nazism with his position, rather than preventing nazism. He's not expanding freedom. He is taking it at will. I do not pretend to know any good solution except I would like those who govern me to stay out of it. I think that is best-practice for Americans regarding the controversy. I think it's best to keep emotions out of it, for the sake of our brethren.

You don't believe that Putin has stated those very words? Or that he is using them to justify his special military operation? I would hope that he doesn't actually believe them and that he is using them as propaganda, because if he actually believes them, then he is seriously unbalanced.
I don't buy the "security of Russia" bs. He was not being threatened by Finland, Ukraine, etc. He is the aggressor, not because he "fears NATO", that's just an excuse. He wants more territory, more land to stretch his legs, or Lebensraum. His actions mirror Hitlers so closely that it is scary. He just has a better vehicle with which to spread propaganda and a much more different world to spread it to.

 

[mjcouvi]

You don't believe that Putin has stated those very words? Or that he is using them to justify his special military operation? I would hope that he doesn't actually believe them and that he is using them as propaganda, because if he actually believes them, then he is seriously unbalanced.
I don't buy the "security of Russia" bs. He was not being threatened by Finland, Ukraine, etc. He is the aggressor, not because he "fears NATO", that's just an excuse. He wants more territory, more land to stretch his legs, or Lebensraum. His actions mirror Hitlers so closely that it is scary. He just has a better vehicle with which to spread propaganda and a much more different world to spread it to.

I don't buy that the security of the United States is served by VERY DIRECTLY helping Saudi Arabia conduct war upon Yemen. Just one example that makes me sick.

Putin's ambitions are not so dissimilar to those of the people in the Pentagon and the people who you vote for. It's a mess. It really is not worth trying to rationalize from an American perspective. If you're interested in some modicum of what little truth you can find, look in places other than government sources.