QB stat comparison after 9 seasons, interesting result (1 Viewer)

[scsaintsfan1]

The stats indicate Derek Carr do not have good protection but yet performed close to Drew's stats, what happens with our Offensive line.

Career Stats after 9th year:

​

Age ​

GP​

CMP​

ATT​

PCT​

ATT/G​

YDS​

AVG​

YDS/G​

TD​

TD%​

INT​

INT%​

LNG​

SCK​

SCKY​

RTG​

Drew Brees​

31​

122​

2697​

4164​

64.8​

34.6​

30464​

7.3​

252.0​

202​

4.5​

110​

2.4​

86​

159​

1165​

93.6​

Derek Carr​

32​

142​

3201​

4958​

64.6​

34.9​

35222​

7.1​

248​

217​

4.4​

99​

2​

87​

264​

1624​

91.8​

Derek was sacked 105 more times, threw for 4758 more yards with 11 less interceptions.

Source:
https://www.statmuse.com › nfl › player › drew-brees-2131 › career-stats
https://www.statmuse.com › nfl › player › derek-carr-23731 › career-stats

 

[Saint_Medic]

The stats indicate Derek Carr do not have good protection but yet performed close to Drew's stats, what happens with our Offensive line.

Career Stats after 9th year:

​

Age ​

GP​

CMP​

ATT​

PCT​

ATT/G​

YDS​

AVG​

YDS/G​

TD​

TD%​

INT​

INT%​

LNG​

SCK​

SCKY​

RTG​

Drew Brees​

31​

122​

2697​

4164​

64.8​

34.6​

30464​

7.3​

252.0​

202​

4.5​

110​

2.4​

86​

159​

1165​

93.6​

Derek Carr​

32​

142​

3201​

4958​

64.6​

34.9​

35222​

7.1​

248​

217​

4.4​

99​

2​

87​

264​

1624​

91.8​

Derek was sacked 105 more times, threw for 4758 more yards with 11 less interceptions.

Source:
https://www.statmuse.com › nfl › player › drew-brees-2131 › career-stats
https://www.statmuse.com › nfl › player › derek-carr-23731 › career-stats

Interesting

 

[Stalwart385]

The nfl evolves over time. If you compare qbs that far apart in eras, you get skewed data. 15 years between the starts is significant. Anything approaching 5-10 years and you should only compare to their peers. In other words, how did they rank among their peers in those stats over those times, I think you'll get a much different answer.

BTW my biggest knock on Carr is sacks and fumbles. I always assume 25-50% of sacks are on the QB and he had a lot.

 

[jahsoul357]

*waiting for the usual suspects that say your aren't supposed to compare stats to a legend on here*

 

[Stalwart385]

*waiting for the usual suspects that say your aren't supposed to compare stats to a legend on here*

It's the same exact thing people tried to do with Jameis and it's just as flawed. I think it was Jameis and Peyton Manning that had similar stats to start their career. There was an even larger time difference and compared to their peers the similarities disappeared.

But of course what QB thread can be complete without Jameis interjected.

 

[oysters]

Drew Brees made his O-Line seems heaps better than they actually were. Not saying they were bad but his decision making and quick release resulted in substantially fewer sacks taken. The line didn’t suddenly regress when Drew retired, he just wasn’t there to prop up their stats to a higher level.

 

[scsaintsfan1]

It's the same exact thing people tried to do with Jameis and it's just as flawed. I think it was Jameis and Peyton Manning that had similar stats to start their career. There was an even larger time difference and compared to their peers the similarities disappeared.

But of course what QB thread can be complete without Jameis interjected.

You can not compare players, but 9 years of data shows that he is a very good quarterback. The attempt is to show promise, I remember a certain quarterback by the name of Archie Manning, the problem was not the player but the organization and coaching. The Raiders have been a terrible organization over the last decade.

 

[scsaintsfan1]

The nfl evolves over time. If you compare qbs that far apart in eras, you get skewed data. 15 years between the starts is significant. Anything approaching 5-10 years and you should only compare to their peers. In other words, how did they rank among their peers in those stats over those times, I think you'll get a much different answer.

BTW my biggest knock on Carr is sacks and fumbles. I always assume 25-50% of sacks are on the QB and he had a lot.

2018 he was sacked 51 times
2021 he was sacked 40 times

2019 and 2020 he was sacked 29 and 26 times
Quarterback rating of 100.8 and 101.4

The difference, the coach and system, Jon Gruden, again very promising organization change and proven system.

 

[Stalwart385]

You can not compare players, but 9 years of data shows that he is a very good quarterback. The attempt is to show promise, I remember a certain quarterback by the name of Archie Manning, the problem was not the player but the organization and coaching. The Raiders have been a terrible organization over the last decade.

I'm a big Carr sunshine pumper but I think this method is fundamentally flawed. You can do the same exercise with most QBs in the league and get similar results. If you want to be optimistic just know that Carr has put up top 10 QB seasons and in the right setting he can do that again. I think he's in a great situation.

 

[jahsoul357]

It's the same exact thing people tried to do with Jameis and it's just as flawed. I think it was Jameis and Peyton Manning that had similar stats to start their career. There was an even larger time difference and compared to their peers the similarities disappeared.

But of course what QB thread can be complete without Jameis interjected.

Hahaha....that was me but it was talking about "point in time." lol
But something that I said still holds true; time difference don't mean as much as some make it. From 91-98, Steve Young averaged something like a 102 passer rating. It had everything to do with the type of offense that they played in as opposed to changes in the league. Changes in the league allowed offenses to adjust and this is when we began to see the field get "shorter" as your had more freedom across the middle of the field, so when people talk about eras, they spend more time looking at the defense as opposed to the offense. So when comparing peers, we need to start looking at the offenses that the peers actually run. On another note, Jim Caldwell changed Peyton's game for the better, which is why him going to the Panthers had me worried. Their staff is built for QB development.

2018 he was sacked 51 times
2021 he was sacked 40 times

2019 and 2021 he was sacked 29 and 26 times
Quarterback rating of 100.8 and 101.4

The difference, the coach and system, Jon Gruden, again very promising organization change and proven system.

They were actually some of the lowest scoring teams in the NFL running Gruden's system. Those QB ratings and lack of sacks didn't mean anything when they weren't scoring.

 

[scsaintsfan1]

I'm a big Carr sunshine pumper but I think this method is fundamental flawed. You can do the same exercise with most QBs in the league and get similar results. An average QB today was top 5, 15 years ago. If you want to be optimistic just know that Carr has put up top 10 QB seasons and in the right setting he can do that again. I think he's in a great situation.

The post is to show promise and the opportunity the player has, he has so many qualities we lacked at QB. The next decade with tell the tale just looking at the start of his saintly part of his career. We still have a very good football organization, definitely something the man did not have at the start. Drew had a similar problem in San Diego and got out in 6 years. Hard to compare players, not the attempt, but there is solid data showing we have a very good QB again.

 

[shiftyplus1]

The stats indicate Derek Carr do not have good protection but yet performed close to Drew's stats, what happens with our Offensive line.

Career Stats after 9th year:

​

Age ​

GP​

CMP​

ATT​

PCT​

ATT/G​

YDS​

AVG​

YDS/G​

TD​

TD%​

INT​

INT%​

LNG​

SCK​

SCKY​

RTG​

Drew Brees​

31​

122​

2697​

4164​

64.8​

34.6​

30464​

7.3​

252.0​

202​

4.5​

110​

2.4​

86​

159​

1165​

93.6​

Derek Carr​

32​

142​

3201​

4958​

64.6​

34.9​

35222​

7.1​

248​

217​

4.4​

99​

2​

87​

264​

1624​

91.8​

Derek was sacked 105 more times, threw for 4758 more yards with 11 less interceptions.

Source:
https://www.statmuse.com › nfl › player › drew-brees-2131 › career-stats
https://www.statmuse.com › nfl › player › derek-carr-23731 › career-stats

Drew and sean were made for one another. Comparing Brees to Carr before Brees came to NO isn't totally fair. Brees' numbers in the first 9 years in NO Are:

4240/6276 (67.6%).....48,555 yards....307 ypg.....348 TDs......152 int....5.5 TD%.....2.4 int%.....239 sacks.....1639 sack yards......QBR=99

Would Carr benefit from having Payton as a coach? Sure. But to the same degree Drew did? I don't think so.

 

[Stalwart385]

The post is to show promise and the opportunity the player has, he has so many qualities we lacked at QB. The next decade with tell the tale just looking at the start of his saintly part of his career. We still have a very good football organization, definitely something the man did not have at the start. Drew had a similar problem in San Diego and got out in 6 years. Hard to compare players, not the attempt, but there is solid data showing we have a very good QB again.

The concept is flawed. There are better ways to present it. I'm not criticizing the premise just how the data is presented. Sorry I'm a stickler for these types of things. This direct comparison is meaningless.

 

[scsaintsfan1]

The concept is flawed. There are better ways to present it. I'm not criticizing the premise just how the data is presented. Sorry I'm a stickler for these types of things. This direct comparison is meaningless.

You draw to much into the post, nothing to prove to anyone.

 

[StudioSaint]

The stats indicate Derek Carr do not have good protection but yet performed close to Drew's stats, what happens with our Offensive line.

Career Stats after 9th year:

​

Age ​

GP​

CMP​

ATT​

PCT​

ATT/G​

YDS​

AVG​

YDS/G​

TD​

TD%​

INT​

INT%​

LNG​

SCK​

SCKY​

RTG​

Drew Brees​

31​

122​

2697​

4164​

64.8​

34.6​

30464​

7.3​

252.0​

202​

4.5​

110​

2.4​

86​

159​

1165​

93.6​

Derek Carr​

32​

142​

3201​

4958​

64.6​

34.9​

35222​

7.1​

248​

217​

4.4​

99​

2​

87​

264​

1624​

91.8​

Derek was sacked 105 more times, threw for 4758 more yards with 11 less interceptions.

Source:
https://www.statmuse.com › nfl › player › drew-brees-2131 › career-stats
https://www.statmuse.com › nfl › player › derek-carr-23731 › career-stats

These stats only show that Carr has similar stats to Brees. They don't show that Carr has or can perform at the level that Brees did. I don't think Carr will ever reach Brees level and think it's trivial to consider statistical similarities like this.

The only way to know if Brees got better protection is to watch every play to see if he actually got better protection. A lot of factors besides OL protection contribute to sacks.

Stats can't be used to accurately evaluate or predict the performance level of any player. Film/video/tape analysis of every play with the knowledge of what the player was asked to do on each play is the only way to accurately evaluate their performance level.